Pixtus - Photography Forum, Photographers, Photo Tips

CaptainTom · **payment options -** 06-26-2009, 12:41 PM

I do a lot of business with other businesses and corporations.

I've noticed that they are almost always getting later and later in their payments of my invoices.
I've had one customer quote me that "you will be paid 65 days from the date of your invoice".

Have you implemented any payment options that have been effective ?

discounts for quick payment ?
interest if not paid in XX days ?
etc ?

CFord · 06-26-2009, 12:50 PM

We still incorporate net 30 as terms in all of payable contracts. With pro rated bonuses for early payments. After 30 days the dunning process begins on past due payables. The logic used when negotiating contracts is how would our customers feel if we were getting later and later on delivery of our product. Most of them understand and most receive the bonuses for early payments. A couple even pay the negotiated rate prior to receiving the invoice from us via a monthly wire transfer and we settle up at the time the invoices are issued.Penalties for late payment get stiffer the more frequent the customers are past due on there amounts owed. Ranging from letters to interest to turning things over to our credit collections department.

J Eddington · 06-26-2009, 01:02 PM

Here is what is on my contract and proposal:

This is on the invoice:Terms are payment in 30 days, after which monthly rebilling charges will be added. The client for whom this work is made, is responsible for payment of fees and expenses incurred by the photographer in this project. Nonpayment is an infringement of our copyright. Your use rights are granted upon payment in full of this invoice.

On proposal: For orders that are paid in full on session date you shall receive a discount of 10%

CFord · 06-26-2009, 01:20 PM

I guess I should have explained my original answer is for my day job. For my photography, I have learned my lesson the hard way and payment is due in full before the product is delivered. Got stiffed a couple of times and now I don't hand over the goods without verifying payment. Session fees are due at the time of the session at the latest. I am starting to do some corporate work and so I may change my policy to terms stated in a written contract and will adjust my price based on their promptness in payment.

GeoffreyB · 06-26-2009, 01:58 PM

Janice,

That's FANTASTIC. You're incentivising early payment, and making late payments hurt - and have real reprocussions. All in a professional, but nice way!

I have a feeling that verbage may start showing up on a LOT of contracts/proposals!

toverman · 06-26-2009, 02:12 PM

There is a real estate developer I've worked with for the past year on several projects. No matter how quickly I turn in the invoice, it takes about two months to get paid (I knew this going in). In this case they aren't stonewalling or withholding money on purpose; that's how long it takes to swim through the sea of red tape.

STP Images · 06-26-2009, 02:25 PM

My portrait and wedding photography must be paid in full prior to shooting. However, I have two corporate clients that I do remit invoices to. I do NOT release the images until the invoices are paid.

On my invoice, it states "payment due upon receipt" and that a late fee of $50.00 will be implemented on the 16th day the invoice is outstanding. This is usually teamed with a phone call to the A/P department explaining that I'm in the photography business, not the credit extension business. Typically, this can help speed things along.

The invoice issuer determines the payment date, not the other way around. I'd love to call my mortgage holder or car note holder and say, "I will pay you 65 days from the date my payment is due". It doens't work that way for us and shouldn't for them.

Years ago I did have one client that said, "absolutely, positively, we do NOT pay invoices until they are 45 days old". The only option I had was to not do business with them . . . which I didn't.

brad · 02:29 PM

The Net 30 or 60 with discounts for paying early is a good idea..

Also note that if you have any dealings with the federal government (as well as some other governmental bodies), if you offer a discount for paying early, they are required by law to pay it early. Just a little FYI that helped me get paid quickly when I dealt with certain governmental agencies back in my computer days.

brad added 0 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Quote:

Originally Posted by STP Images

I have two corporate clients that I do remit invoices to. I do NOT release the images until the invoices are paid.

Exactly.

I find it ironic that the businesses I've had the most trouble with in the past have a sign in their waiting rooms that says "It is customary to render payment at the time of service." ROFL

Howard Barlow · 06-26-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Eddington

... Nonpayment is an infringement of our copyright...

You don't really believe that, do you? Or, is that just to make the client think it is?

brad · 06-26-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Eddington

Nonpayment is an infringement of our copyright. Your use rights are granted upon payment in full of this invoice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

You don't really believe that, do you? Or, is that just to make the client think it is?

Well, its not worded correctly, but it is true. If they don't pay for the usage rights, they do not have the right to use them. If they do, then THAT is infringement of copyright.

CaptainTom · 06-26-2009, 04:15 PM

If payment is a condition of the copyright usage then I would think it would be valid.

I think I'm going to have to force myself to get a photo contract to each client before the shoot. I am dealing more and more with out of town companies.
This might interfere with my "reputation" of being the 'go to' guy when you need something in a hurry. My individual clients and 'mom and pop' businesses are not a problem.

Howard Barlow · 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad

Well, its not worded correctly, but it is true. If they don't pay for the usage rights, they do not have the right to use them. If they do, then THAT is infringement of copyright.

No, it is NOT true. That is NOT what it says. Failure to pay is NOT infringement. Use without license is infringement. It has absolutely nothing to do with payment. Words mean things, especially in legal situations. That's why I think photographers who write their own contracts are...well...

Many photographers are quick to point out people should hire qualified professional, rather than MWACs, or such, but feel smart enough to do the attorney's professional job. It just doesn't make sense.

I have seen cases where photographers put certain words, or statements, in their contracts, thinking they are making it bulletproof, only to find out they would have fared better if they had left it out altogether.

If you want a contract, hire an attorney who specializes in contracts in YOUR state. Using a contract you like from another photographer is like taking prescription meds that are helping another person. Things are not always equal. Use your brain, peeps.

Whoops, shoulda read Tom's before I posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

If payment is a condition of the copyright usage then I would think it would be valid.

Right. In that case, payment authorzies the license. But, one could license use without compensation in any form. Payment, on its own, has no power. If it did, merely paying for your portrait would allow clients to use the image as they see fit. And, we all know that is a typical belief among the public. Nope, payment is NOT the key. License is. How you get there can vary.

HotHolly · 06-26-2009, 07:04 PM

I think its weird you would extend any biz terms right now. We deal with a LOT of vendors and no one wants to give NET30, never mind 60, 120+. If you have current accounts that always pay on time, you could offer them NET30 with a 5%-8% discount if they pay on time. 10% or more is a LOT. No one gives that kind of discount...that I've heard of anyway.

carrbowl · 06-26-2009, 10:12 PM

My father has a business...it's a one man band, the only way he will have a business. He hates dealing with businesses and the crap that goes with them. He has learned that there is one fee for the cash people let's say $100 , $105 for those that pay by check on the spot, $115 for those that pay within 30 days and $130 for those that pay after 30 days. Those are just examples---don't go by them. It's just his encouragement to try to get people to pay his cash and/or write him a check on the spot.

brad · 06-26-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

No, it is NOT true. That is NOT what it says. Failure to pay is NOT infringement. Use without license is infringement. It has absolutely nothing to do with payment. Words mean things, especially in legal situations. That's why I think photographers who write their own contracts are...well...

That's why I said its not worded correctly. The intent is true, the words are wrong. I agree with you, don't bite my head off.