"Free" a view from David Jay Dissected

[BWangPhoto]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Yeah there's alot of dudes now that are jumping on the 'Motivational Speaker' bandwagon making their money that way instead of shooting so much. Sure they might be good photogs, but they have a really good business sense and a personality that is very convincing when it comes to selling stuff, i.e. workshops or seminars.
And like the above comment said, DJ has tapped into this market and gotten a huge following from it.
Because of this, he is doing VERY well for himself. The number of 'new' photogs getting into this is no doubt astronomical due to the better cameras becoming more widely available.

I am not talking about "motivational" speakers at all. I am talking about so-called photographers that "sell" themselves and the products they are pushing (that week) by saying they are using so & so product, shooting with this product etc. and they are NEVER in the studio nor do they have time to shoot period. THEY ARE ON THE SPEAKING CURCUIT. They are quite frankly, bull-sh*t artists, and new(er) photographers coming into the industry belive EVERYTHING they hear and see on the internet.

There are a few on the circuit that are worth listening to, but those have been in the business 30+ years and HAVE done what they say they are doing. They didn't just start this journey a coupla two or three years ago like 90% of the speakers on the circuit now.

Motivational speaker or not...I am not following a neewb in the business period. (Or at least not without FACT and VISABLE proof to back it up.) I certainly am not taking their word or program as solid advice, just because some company is sponsoring them on the speaking circuit. I have watched speaker over the last 15 years and they get worse and worse each year. Not to metion there is MORE AND MORE of them, compared to actual working photographers.

[S-Man]

But I think DJ IS a motivational speaker. He speaks about more than just photography. He speaks about improving your life. He says things that people like to hear. He suggests a certain mindset that relaxes people and motivates them to do more.
He reads alot and passes that on to others.
He then relates that information to his photography business and suggests that if you follow the same model, you too can be "Free to succeed", not only in the wedding photography industry, but in "life!"
I hope he doesn't go the way of KR...

I will say this though: His forum, OpenSourcePhoto, has some of the highest concentration of talented photogs I've seen.

[jgrindal]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

A lot has to do with perceived value. If I am providing a wedding album, enlargements, DVD slide shows, etc. and I can get them delivered in a week, the perceived value diminishes. If the client knows ahead of time that it will take a lot of effort and skill and talent and genius to put their package together, they'll wait and the perceived value will increase.
Comminication is key. Under promise and Over deliver.

This was a shoot-n-burn thing though. No album, no prints. Photog emailed them a blown up 40" print of one of their photos that he's hanging in his studio (out of town photog) but no pictures and no response yet...

le sigh. Poor CS disappoints me.

[BWangPhoto]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I hope he doesn't go the way of KR...

I will say this though: His forum, OpenSourcePhoto, has some of the highest concentration of talented photogs I've seen.

He is just like the rest...he will say and cater to what the companies that sponsor him want him to say or they will find another person willing to do so. They are cheap and a dime a dozen.

And talent does not necessarily equate to successful or profitable.

I have never bought into this "feel good" "free to succeed" BS. It takes a lot more than that, in ANY career, especially one like photography where the majority are self-employed to MAKE A LIVING from their work.

But if it works for you or others, more power to you. (But I won't be giving him any of my hard earned $$ attending any workshop he has.)

[S-Man]

You know, It's probably holding me back, but I have yet to pay for a workshop or a seminar.
I don't buy into his whole "Daily Affirmation" lifestyle either (for the record).
But by 'talent' I mean the photos posted on OSP are consistently some of the best I've seen.

edit:Did the title to this thread get changed?

[Jake]

Originally Posted by BWangPhoto

He is just like the rest...he will say and cater to what the companies that sponsor him want him to say or they will find another person willing to do so. They are cheap and a dime a dozen.

And talent does not necessarily equate to successful or profitable.

I have never bought into this "feel good" "free to succeed" BS. It takes a lot more than that, in ANY career, especially one like photography where the majority are self-employed to MAKE A LIVING from their work.

But if it works for you or others, more power to you. (But I won't be giving him any of my hard earned $$ attending any workshop he has.)

Somebody's not a David Jay fan......

[BWangPhoto]

Originally Posted by thejakestir

Somebody's not a David Jay fan......

Nope, don't know him...let me correct that statement for you:

"Somebody's not a SPEAKER fan..." If they haven't been in business 15 plus years, I don't consider them qualified to be on the circuit telling (?Lying?) about how much money they have made and how they do it, when they are always traveling and speaking...

[toverman]

Originally Posted by S-Man

You know, It's probably holding me back, but I have yet to pay for a workshop or a seminar.
I don't buy into his whole "Daily Affirmation" lifestyle either (for the record).
But by 'talent' I mean the photos posted on OSP are consistently some of the best I've seen.

edit:Did the title to this thread get changed?

There are seminars you can get a lot out of, especially if you find an actual working photographer whose work or business acumen you admire. I don't waste time with some of the "rock stars" out there, though, because some just like to say provocative things that fly in the face of common sense. Others found the right mix of talent and luck and rose to the top so quickly that it's unlikely they will have the right snake oil to work for most people. And then there are the true stars who worked their way up and have a lot of experience to share of good and bad times.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by BWangPhoto

Nope, don't know him...let me correct that statement for you:

I don't think my statement needed correcting.
When you say:
"He is just like the rest...he will say and cater to what the companies that sponsor him want him to say or they will find another person willing to do so"

And:

"I have never bought into this "feel good" "free to succeed" BS"

You are talking directly about DJ, hence my statement about not being a fan of DJ.
Now I understand you don't like any of them that haven't been in the biz for at least 15years and that's cool.

I couldn't care less really, today is the first day I've ever checked out the "OSP" forum and the first time I've seen his website. But don't act like those are were just blanket statements.

[jasonhuang]

Originally Posted by BWangPhoto

Nope, don't know him...let me correct that statement for you:

"Somebody's not a SPEAKER fan..." If they haven't been in business 15 plus years, I don't consider them qualified to be on the circuit telling (?Lying?) about how much money they have made and how they do it, when they are always traveling and speaking...

I think DJ has been in business for at least 10 years now. He rarely shoots anymore, but that's by choice. He sells a product that is useful for wedding photographers and he talks about how he got there. He's basically set up a system for himself to make income for the rest of his life - i don't know about you, but I'd like to get to that point in my life.

His free to succeed speaking tour is motivational and applies to wedding photography. He talks about workflow with LR, aperture, backup, communication, and solid business practices. He wasn't an overnight success/speaker story.

However, if you search online, there's a lot of drama around him and that's probably b/c the fame has gotten to his head. Or it's good business. People seem to expect wedding photographers to be normal, friendly people, but forget that it's also a business.

[Angelo]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

A lot has to do with perceived value. If I am providing a wedding album, enlargements, DVD slide shows, etc. and I can get them delivered in a week, the perceived value diminishes. If the client knows ahead of time that it will take a lot of effort and skill and talent and genius to put their package together, they'll wait and the perceived value will increase.
Comminication is key. Under promise and Over deliver.

So true....

Angelo added 60 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by jgrindal

I have a friend who has been waiting for over a month now for his wedding photos. He is NOT pleased.

A good answer to someone like this would be:
"Sorry if you feel it's taking too long, but I will not sacrifice quality for speed. Let me see what I can do to get it to you sooner without sacrificing
the quality". Most everyone will not want a lousy job done, so they will
understand and even thank you,

They'll even tell you to "take an additional 8 weeks..."

[pbyd]

I am Reading this thread, and now I know how I have stayed in the photography business for over 39 years, I offer and give customer service. First we charge for every hour we work, not just the few hours at the wedding, this includes consultation time, engagement and bridal session time, wedding, reception and the time we work on the images. I think where I differ from most of you are that when I and my other 2 photographers shoot a wedding, is that each image we expose has the correct white balance and exposure. This is not a slam or trying to be an ass, I have had many photographers come by my studio and view weddings we have shot to see that this can be done. A wedding shot on Saturday is put into the work station on Monday morning and by Tuesday at the latest the images have been culled, numbered, backed up to the sever and DVD, put online for viewing and proof “flip album” CDs are ready for the client to pick up. When I hear people taking weeks to have wedding images ready and not charging for their computer time I know why the average photographer stays in this business for about 5 yeas and then finds a paying gig. As for “Super Stars” those that know me know how I feel. These new Super Star speakers are really a thing of the last 5 to 10 years and are only around because of a new generation of photographer that wants to be told and sold information and junk rather than learning on their own and learning what it takes to survive. Just look into the background of the speaker and what they are saying. If a speaker is selling and speaking of a business, you can easily check the Sales Tax rolls and see if he has ever been in business and how long. There are “Super Stars” out there that have just this year started paying sales tax and doing business, yet so many want to bow at their feet and lick their boots. I will never understand the need for such “Heroes”. Give me someone to follow that speaks the truth and know what he is doing (has a history in the business) We have a few on TPF like Don Barns and others that know more than the “Super Stars” will ever learn, and Don gives free advice right hear on TPF, take advantage of the experience that is offered.

Good Shooting
Wayne

[AllenAyres]

Originally Posted by BWangPhoto

He is just like the rest...he will say and cater to what the companies that sponsor him want him to say or they will find another person willing to do so. They are cheap and a dime a dozen.

And talent does not necessarily equate to successful or profitable.

I have never bought into this "feel good" "free to succeed" BS. It takes a lot more than that, in ANY career, especially one like photography where the majority are self-employed to MAKE A LIVING from their work.

But if it works for you or others, more power to you. (But I won't be giving him any of my hard earned $$ attending any workshop he has.)

It's been years since he last shot a wedding, and you really have to understand that most everything he says is colored to sell you something (his software, his site, a seminar, a book, dvd, etc etc etc). He seems like a nice guy, but he is awfully full of himself. 4 years as a wedding photographer does not a legend make.

I don't know, he lost what credibility he had in my opinion after the 2 slap fights he had with Gary Fong and Denis Reggie this past year:
http://weddingindustryrumors.com/tag/david-jay/
http://davidjaylies.blogspot.com/

He bills himself as "The Tony Robbins of Wedding Photography" - that tells you everything you need to know right there.