"Free" a view from David Jay Dissected

[tresorph]

This thread was inspired by Holly's post on perception ...

Last night David Jay posted a vid. Actually his facebook advice this past month has made me throw my fist up in the air. I'm about to jump on the "Not sure I really like this guy" bandwagon. Reason being that everyone has an opinion how to run your business and you certainly get input and learn from other people. But man this guy has an uncanny rockstar following that some people are just zombies behind him. Ok, so what am I rambling about.

A post on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video....47109&comments

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My Comment:
Michaelle Janet at 1:01am July 8
Files Included is one thing, Saying the word "Free" is another. Add value by offering things that won't cost you more than a few minutes. I agree with the DVD burning, and website. But by all means don't say FREE - even if it is, convey that it has an inherit value to it. Because then "cheap people just always think your work is worthless and act like you owe them" something I read today and rang very true. Thanks DJ for the heads up on the book.

His comment back:
David Jay
Report
David Jay at 1:47am July 8

Michaelle - In the digital economy "Free" doesn't mean "cheap" or "worthless" like it used to imply when dealing with physical goods...and on the psychology side it is much better to use the word Free instead of "included".
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Agggh! Look I don't know DJ's background because I'm not a groupie. But his statements on the psychology are so off the mark. I'm a double business major and I know that psychology has alot to play into sales. Man, you don't even need a degree to know that. All you need to know is WalMart vs. Target. And you know what we're talking about. Why o why are Targets goods - made in the same China we all know "better" than WalMarts china goods?

[toverman]

I like the word "bonus" rather than "free." The word "bonus" implies that it's something special and has value.

Everything has a cost to somebody, and particularly in photography there is education among some clientele that needs to happen so they know that our time and work has value. There is also a cost associated with hiring us and purchasing our work. Bonuses can create loyalty, Free stuff makes them expect more for less.

Maybe this guy is trying to be the new Ken Rockwell by posting outwardly provocative things that are utter crap on the inside. While there are many talented and successful people on the Rock Star photo tour circuit or on the Web, there are others spreading lies and misinformation just to make a buck!

[jgrindal]

I don't know who David Jay is, but based on this video, he strikes me as a douchebag (with a somewhat nifty clock).

Anyway, I disagree with him on the concept of 'free' digital goods. People never expect things for free, even digital goods. We still pay 99cents a song on itunes and pay for books for our Kindle II's. I have worked for years in supply chain management and can tell you straight away that the term 'free' scares the living !#@$ out of me. If something is free that means a) it's worthless or b) the cost is hidden elsewhere in the package.

Consider your normal customer. This is someone who is putting together a wedding who is probably looking at staggering bills for venue, cake, dress, shoes, etc. She's going to be looking for quality because it's a once in a lifetime thing but she is tempering that with price concerns. If you offer something for free, you are risking both of her 'high' points. If it's worthless, it implies poor quality. If the cost is hidden, she will not want to absorb it.

My advice would be to offer things as 'included' or 'additional' or a 'special offer'. Avoid the term 'free'

My 2 cents.

[tresorph]

Originally Posted by jgrindal

I don't know who David Jay is, but based on this video, he strikes me as a douchebag (with a somewhat nifty clock).

Anyway, I disagree with him on the concept of 'free' digital goods. People never expect things for free, even digital goods. We still pay 99cents a song on itunes and pay for books for our Kindle II's. I have worked for years in supply chain management and can tell you straight away that the term 'free' scares the living !#@$ out of me. If something is free that means a) it's worthless or b) the cost is hidden elsewhere in the package.

Consider your normal customer. This is someone who is putting together a wedding who is probably looking at staggering bills for venue, cake, dress, shoes, etc. She's going to be looking for quality because it's a once in a lifetime thing but she is tempering that with price concerns. If you offer something for free, you are risking both of her 'high' points. If it's worthless, it implies poor quality. If the cost is hidden, she will not want to absorb it.

My advice would be to offer things as 'included' or 'additional' or a 'special offer'. Avoid the term 'free'

My 2 cents.

David Jay is one of the new wedding Rockstars. He started Showit Websites for photographers. So he has a legion of followers. I will admit I get a lot of use out of OSP (his free forum). But he has been spewing a lot of crock lately. Earlier this summer, he suggested that we upload wedding pics to Facebook and tag people THE NIGHT OF THE WEDDING. : Because if not, the Point and Shoot images of the guests turn into the "wedding images" and by the time yours roll around - it's old news.

[w9ctm]

Michaelle,
My read on this is that he is looking at things from a consumer's point of view, not the photographers. While he may 'imply' that he is suggesting the photographers do these things, it sounds to me like he is on the B & G's side and suggesting the photographer quickly post photos. Let's not think about perhaps a tweak here or there, or maybe a better crop of the shot or anything... A photographer would only want to show off quality photos, not just whatever they shot. When someone posts something from their P & S camera, it is not perceived to be of high quality, (in lighting, composure, cropping, anything) because they are not a professional. But if you, as the pro, were to post things like that, there would quickly be comments about what crap work you do.
Double edged sword here.

My .02

[toverman]

Chuck has some great points, but I can see a benefit in a professional wedding photographer at least leaking out a few images as soon as possible. I've watched a couple of people I know get married recently, and the DAY AFTER, their Facebook profiles were full of photos of questionable quality taken by guests. Three weeks after the wedding, the pro has finally posted a preview on the photo biz blog. By then, they are just higher-quality photos of what everybody else has already seen.

I don't mean to say we should rush out crap just for the sake of doing it. But grabbing a few stellar images, applying some processing and releasing them as a preview can work.

[w9ctm]

Good points Todd.

[tresorph]

To an effect, on the Facebook images I agree to a point. And I put up the photo booth images the night of to "beat em to the punch" as you will.

But I stand back and see things in an industry and long term standpoint, not just trending what would be Hot and make me stand apart NOW. And it scares me to think that one day the consumer will expect quality professional wedding images on demand.

Back to DJ's point of view... I don't think it's the bride and grooms. He's still pimping his showit software. And what better way of showing off your images pronto on Facebook - or giving away "free" slideshows than with his software. For the record I have the slideshow software, havn't niched time in my workflow to use it. lol.

[jasonhuang]

We do same day slideshows using a macbook pro, lightroom, and the built in mac screen saver. We're confident enough in our work to do some quick edits on 50-100 photos from the day of up until the reception (or 1/3 way through) to post some of our best shots and put em up for display. Then the day after or night of, we'll post a few of those onto FB...or we try to. :-p We feel like speed is a huge factor in today's industry and putting up quality, pro images will only reinforce our abilities and brand.

For example. People watch us work and more often than not, at the end of the night, we get a bunch of comments from parents, guests, b&g thanking us for the great photos even if they haven't seen anything....JUST by the way we worked their wedding. So, if we can post a slideshow with RESULTS, that just further reinforces our hard work AND legitimizes our abilities. It's a win-win-win.

The bride&groom get something immediately. We get affirmed. And guests who are looking for photographers now know who to go to. AND, even if they aren't getting married anytime soon, they now know who to refer. Add another win.

[ChristopherCoy]

I wonder what he shot that video with.... hmmmm.

[tresorph]

Jason - are you guys using the wireless file transmitters? I've been eyeing that for our booth pix. Wonder if it would work best for quick editing the night/weekend of.

[S-Man]

If you're giving a hi-res image CD for "free", you obviously have to go up on the initial fee of the service, as was briefly mentioned in the video. Especially if you make some money on prints after the service. The higher initial cost will make people recoil still.
I understand where he's coming from, thinking from a consumers perspective, but won't this kind of hurt the industry if it becomes 'expected' now?

Not to mention that when people get your images printed at walgreens or godforbid snapfish, they look like trash, which makes you look like trash...Hmm...

[porschelvr]

I agree he's a DOUCHEBAG.

I always find myself really listening to the business advice of a guy who is wearing an old baseball hat, tshirt and unshaven. I mean that just screams "SUCCESS" to me.

He probably shot this video from the basement of his parents house. LOL!

[ggeen]

Originally Posted by tresorph

David Jay...suggested that we upload wedding pics to Facebook and tag people THE NIGHT OF THE WEDDING. Because if not, the Point and Shoot images of the guests turn into the "wedding images" and by the time yours roll around - it's old news.

I'm not sure I understand David Jay's point here. So he sees his photographs as nothing better than the P&S crowd? If that is his quality state of mind, then I would rather have my friends make the shoot -- and for much less.

On a side note, David Jay sounds like he is dealing with some insecurities about his work. Trying to be first is a way to compensate for not being the best. It is a 'competitive' mind set.

[jasonhuang]

There was a quote I read online yesterday saying, "What they do for a living is not take pics, because now anyone can take pics. What they do is create an experience so remarkable that people can't help talking about it."

Obviously this can be interpreted in different ways, but what this says to me is at least 1 thing. This is the direction the WORLD is moving, not just the industry. How do we embrace instead of try to avoid this change? Putting out pictures the day of or day after the wedding doesn't make you any less of a professional, IMO.

Michaelle, we aren't using wireless transmitters, just multiple firewire800 readers. :-) There's usually plenty of time to dump and select our favorites during dinner.