Flush Mount/Coffee Table Books

[lyncca]

How are you pricing them? They are really expensive to purchase to start with. Do you price them low as part of a wedding package or mark them up the same as anything else. It seems crazy to me that someone would pay $1000 or so for a book....

I've tried looking at other photographer's sites, but I can't really find much on them except as a package. I want to have a package include them, but I need to know how to price it individually to come up with my total.

The vendors I am signed up with are KISS, Finao, and Millers.

Thanks for any help :)

[S-Man]

Look at KISS and notice how much they charge for design. That's on top of what the album costs you. I'd use that as a gauge. Don't under charge for your time, as designing an album from scratch is a long, time consuming process. That's why they're so expensive. So many man-hours go into designing one.
I've seen people charge anywhere from 1500-4500+ for an album. You just have to sell the hell out of it
I'm waiting to hear what Holly has to say on this...

[lyncca]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Look at KISS and notice how much they charge for design. That's on top of what the album costs you. I'd use that as a gauge. Don't under charge for your time, as designing an album from scratch is a long, time consuming process. That's why they're so expensive. So many man-hours go into designing one.
I've seen people charge anywhere from 1500-4500+ for an album. You just have to sell the hell out of it
I'm waiting to hear what Holly has to say on this...

Thanks, I will go look at the vendor's designing prices. and $4500?? HOLEY SCHNIKIES!

I would also like to hear what Holly thinks, who by the way is my new hero. I was checking out her boudoir and main website a couple days ago and wowsa! Amazing stuff.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I'm waiting to hear what Holly has to say on this...

stop baiting me!

Originally Posted by lyncca

I would also like to hear what Holly thinks, who by the way is my new hero. I was checking out her boudoir and main website a couple days ago and wowsa! Amazing stuff.

awhh! thanks.

i would have said something eventually anyway. lol.

Here is my take on it - albums are not cheap. yes, most are over $1K. and yes, most clients don't realize how $$ they are. i gave a relative a $5K album once and she thought it was a $50 walmart special and bitched about it until another photog told her she was crazy, this is a $5K album! so, that brings you to the point - how do you sell something like that?

it depends on who you are selling to. i do different stuff for baby sessions, weddings, and boudoir. since babies and boudoir are opposites on how i set them up, i'll mention those.

album sales on baby sessions used to kill my gross sale amount. they bought the book and walked away. i got maybe a few hundred bucks in post session sales. i was selling little board books that art leather made called foto fun books. they werent too much and really cute. so thats a good mark up, right? but it wasnt where i wanted it. the parents didnt buy anything else b/c they had the book. and they wanted the book the most. so i made the book only available with a $X purchase for an additional $X% for the 1st book and $X%-25% for every additional book. baby sales easily went over $1K by adjusting that - and i actually sold the book for less but made more $. they usually bought wall art and the book.

as for the boudoir - i just tweaked my price list, b/c i noticed the ceiling was a little low. (ceiling being total gross amount per client per session). its the same thing - they want the book/ album. so i started requiring wall art like with the baby stuff, but some people dont want a huge boudoir shot of themselves. so i adjusted my session prices to correspond with different albums and available upgrades. example, if you only shoot 10 images, you are gonna have trouble selling a 30 page book. so i bumped up the number of clothing changes and retouched images per shoot to sell bigger books.

anyway, both clients are paying a premium on something to get the special rate on the album, that they can only get by buying that premium object. it seems to make it more valuable to them too, which they like.

anyway, you cannot sell an album for more than $1K if you think its too much. your attitude is gonna reflect in your sales. i view the album as what is my total post-session sale worth? its not a book - its the total potential profit from this one client. then ask, how do i get a better profit margin if i sell prints or products? then i push the one with the higher profit margin and figure out how to sell them what they want to buy.

you have to plan/ create a win:win buying situation otherwise your clients will feel taken advantage of and you'll feel underpaid. that just leads to everybody being pissy with each other.

anyway, you can plan this stuff out on paper and tweak it after you put it into effect. example - if you only offer 3 albums for sale, which one will sell the most? the answer is usually going to be the middle album. no one wants the cheapest thing (its usually equated with junk) and no one want to pay top dollar either, so by default, they usually choose the middle of the road album. ok, im done.

[ronocnikral]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

anyway, you cannot sell an album for more than $1K if you think its too much. your attitude is gonna reflect in your sales. i view the album as what is my total post-session sale worth? its not a book - its the total potential profit from this one client. then ask, how do i get a better profit margin if i sell prints or products? then i push the one with the higher profit margin and figure out how to sell them what they want to buy.

I agree totally. My wife isn't comfortable with our prices and think they are too high. i'm comfortable though. But, we booked our first full wedding package in Houston yesterday and the album went with it. We discount the price if they pay for an 8x11 with 20 pages at booking (we need the cash flow right now). And we plan to upsell later.

At first I started by adding up in a table what our cost would be. Then I added a multiplier to it. Problem was, when discounting our margin became so small it wasn't even worth selling the thing (they walk out the door with a TON of your images that you have a very small chance of selling again). I tried some other things like just adding in what we wanted our margin to be and then discounting, but that screws everything up. But, I came up with an idea to backcalculate what we wanted our margin to be at our max discount (paying at time of booking). This worked well because it compressed the prices and the sensistivity to the size of album is less. We make more money based on the number of pages they end up with (which they can add in later). of course bigger pages cost more and therefore we make more...

We also price the albums as we show them, with all the leather upgrades and cameos.

Whatever you end up doing, make sure you are making money on a lot of images walking out the door.

[lyncca]

Thanks for all the great information Holly, it makes a lot of sense. I want to be you when I grow up. :)

lyncca added 8 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by ronocnikral

I agree totally. My wife isn't comfortable with our prices and think they are too high. i'm comfortable though. But, we booked our first full wedding package in Houston yesterday and the album went with it. We discount the price if they pay for an 8x11 with 20 pages at booking (we need the cash flow right now). And we plan to upsell later.

At first I started by adding up in a table what our cost would be. Then I added a multiplier to it. Problem was, when discounting our margin became so small it wasn't even worth selling the thing (they walk out the door with a TON of your images that you have a very small chance of selling again). I tried some other things like just adding in what we wanted our margin to be and then discounting, but that screws everything up. But, I came up with an idea to backcalculate what we wanted our margin to be at our max discount (paying at time of booking). This worked well because it compressed the prices and the sensistivity to the size of album is less. We make more money based on the number of pages they end up with (which they can add in later). of course bigger pages cost more and therefore we make more...

We also price the albums as we show them, with all the leather upgrades and cameos.

Whatever you end up doing, make sure you are making money on a lot of images walking out the door.

Thanks Conor :) We were posting at the same time.

[S-Man]

Now the question is, are there any decent-quality budget-oriented books out there? Books like KISS, Finao, Forbeyon and so on, may be out of some client's budget. They would then go elsewhere. Especially if providing an album is one of the main requirements of choosing a particular photographer.
I want to offer books that "appeal to all budgets". Instead of not making a sale because it IS too expensive, you at least make A sale, and still make money.
Realistically, the way the economy is, even high-rollers are watching their spending. So when it comes to the middle-class (what's left of it ) I doubt a $1500-$5000 photo album is at the top of their list of necessities.

Quite honestly too, I think alot of people would be pleased with much cheaper books. I recently sold an album to a Senior and used Adorama. The album turned out great. I was shocked and awed- in a good way.
They use the same paper as KISS- Fuji Crystal Archival photo paper and they also use a Leporello binding process that allows for lay-flat pages with no seam cuts. $35 for an 8x10 is hard to beat.

I really do want to push the upscale albums though. I haven't even ordered a sample album from KISS. I really want one though...

[HotHolly]

Sam, my clients dont come in thinking they are gonna buy a $1K+ plus on an album. Actually most of them look like they had severe sticker shock when they see a price list. Most clients have a random predetermined amount of money dogearred for their photography. Its an uneducated guessitmate on how much they should spend. That amount may or may not mesh with your total sale goal. It usually doesnt mesh with mine. Thats when you put your pricing structure into practice. If they want the album cheaper and you want the profit margin, you need to figure out a pricing structure that meets in the middle. And you have to keep in mind, that once they have that book, they have all their shots. There is no reason to buy more prints...so make a reason. Have them buy wall art for $400-$800 and they get the album at a special rate. Dont give away what people are willing to buy. You never know what they are willing to buy until you try to sell it to them. People will shock you.

[PhotoDude79]

For my pricing on albums I take what it cost me to buy it and multiply by 4. So if a 12 x 12 (my most popular right now) 20 page album cost me 365.00 I'm going to charge close to $1400.00 without a added design fee of $350. Well that just how I do it..... and if they want extra pages each extra pages gets the same treatment.

[S-Man]

That's a good rule of thumb, Reggie. By that rate, I'm right on target

[MemoryMakers]

Good question Lynnca. I was thinking about album pricing today! Great responses everyone! Very helpful!!

[PhotoDude79]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Now the question is, are there any decent-quality budget-oriented books out there? Books like KISS, Finao, Forbeyon and so on, may be out of some client's budget. They would then go elsewhere. Especially if providing an album is one of the main requirements of choosing a particular photographer.
I want to offer books that "appeal to all budgets". Instead of not making a sale because it IS too expensive, you at least make A sale, and still make money.
Realistically, the way the economy is, even high-rollers are watching their spending. So when it comes to the middle-class (what's left of it ) I doubt a $1500-$5000 photo album is at the top of their list of necessities.

Quite honestly too, I think alot of people would be pleased with much cheaper books. I recently sold an album to a Senior and used Adorama. The album turned out great. I was shocked and awed- in a good way.
They use the same paper as KISS- Fuji Crystal Archival photo paper and they also use a Leporello binding process that allows for lay-flat pages with no seam cuts. $35 for an 8x10 is hard to beat.

I really do want to push the upscale albums though. I haven't even ordered a sample album from KISS. I really want one though...

I know what you mean on the cheaper albums... dude when you feel your first KISS album in your hand, you'll know why they cost so much. The feel of the leather and it's weight is just crazy good.

[S-Man]

Speaking of KISS albums, Does anyone have a sample album here in Houston that I could see? I would love to touch one for myself. I'll even wear those white curators gloves if you want me to!

Disclaimer: I shall not be held responsible for any part of the previous sentences taken out of context and used in a crude or ambiguous manner.

[janetg]

Sam, i should have one in my hot little hands in about 15 days... i can let you know when it arrives (my first order fromt hem).

janetg

[S-Man]

Janet! I would Like that sooo much!
Is it a studio sample or a clients album?