What to say to parents wanting to know why sports photos cost an outrageous 5 bucks

[boxofrocks]

So you're out there busting you hump every week taking photos of the local teams. The parents can't figure out why they have to pay $5.00 for a 4x6--I mean, they only cost 19 cents, right?

Well, why don't you present them with a little math. These are real world cost of goods sold numbers taken from my football game 4x6 photo sales (only) from 2008:

2008 gross revenue (football) $3579
smugmug fees -$600
Equipment depreciation -$1376*
Mileage & misc -$200
Net revenue $1403

Last year I sold 794 4x6 photos. That means I made $1.77 net profit per 4x6 photo using the math above.

Now if you add in the other enlargements ordered from football last year, that adds another $300 in net revenue, or $30 bucks a game. Big bucks, huh?


By the way, I figure my hourly time for the ten game season as follows:

Travel 7.5
Shooting 45
Editing 40
Order fulfillment 20
Total 112.5 hours

That means from those 4x6 photos, I made $1403 over 112.5 hours, or $12.47/hour. That's less than the hourly rate for a bank teller.

Good thing you're getting rich off of the parents!


Now I have a contract with the booster club to provide other value added services that brings in a fair amount of extra money, but most sports photographers don't have an arrangement like that. So next time someone complains about the high cost of prints, do the math, and get back to them.

BTW, I'd be interested to see other people's sales per team over the course of a season. I have no idea where I rank, but after being with this school for 5 years, I've developed a loyal following, so I'd guess my sales are a bit more than average for football.

Oh, those of you charging 2 or 3 bucks a 4x6 might want to do a little math and see how much money you're "losing". Using the numbers above, if I charged $2.50 per photo, my net revenue would be NEGATIVE $76 per season. I'm sure there are some who might take issue with my math, but you can see that it's not too tough to explain to customers how you're not exactly getting rich off of their scrapbooking habit.



* I figured depreciation at 10% per year based on the equipment I use every game. That was a conservative total.

[ronocnikral]

i'd tell them to take the picture themselves. $5, that is cheap. we don't even sell 4x6's unless you buy more than 200 of the same copy.

[kenw]

actually, you're wasting your time trying to educate these folks. No amount of logic will make a dent in their financially-challenged evacuated craniums.

Based on your math, I think you need to raise your prices.

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Depreciation on camera bodies should be at 20% (pretty much understood that the technology changes enough that a 5 year basis can be used-does anyone have an IRS statement on depreciation of camera bodies?- as to the rest of the equipment (tripods/flashes/lenses then 10 years would be good while flash cards I would expense out as bought). Then the printer if you are doing on site would probably be less than 5 years.

[boxofrocks]

Originally Posted by DEMDeepEllumMusic

Depreciation on camera bodies should be at 20% (pretty much understood that the technology changes enough that a 5 year basis can be used-does anyone have an IRS statement on depreciation of camera bodies?- as to the rest of the equipment (tripods/flashes/lenses then 10 years would be good while flash cards I would expense out as bought). Then the printer if you are doing on site would probably be less than 5 years.

I agree, but I cut it in half to be conservative. I actually use far more clicks on sports than anything else.

BTW, you can't sell them for much more than 5 bucks in this market (to all the "poor" people in Coppell). Sales suffer at much more than that. My calculations show that you can't charge much less than this and really make money, yet people do! I can't imagine they ever did the math.

As I mentioned, I get a substantial amount from the booster club for making posters like the ones here. I also see a good amount of Senior Portrait revenue due to the exposure. But that doesn't apply to others that shoot sports.

[Comanche]

Tom - I run into the same thing fairly frequently. I rather agree with Ken that good, well thought out reasoning just goes over folks heads.

I have a similar agreement with a booster club at one of my schools - I give the club 10% back from my sales in return for their passing out my cards at their concession stands. So far, I have had three orders - all from the same parent. However, I have had five orders from another school - a school I have no agreement with. If I don't see some sort of better return by the end of the school year, I won't renew the agreement.

Besides your good numbers, there is another reason to charge $5 for a 4X6. I know some folks scan in a 4X6, then go to Walgreen's to make an enlargement rather than buying one of mine.

If I wasn't selling my images to a newspaper, this would not be worth the work.

[boxofrocks]

Originally Posted by kenw

actually, you're wasting your time trying to educate these folks. No amount of logic will make a dent in their financially-challenged evacuated craniums.

True. But if challenged, I tell them I make about $1.75 per photo, and I'd be happy to send them the figures if they'd like to see them for themselves.

This was really an excercise to get other photographers thinking.

[kenw]

Originally Posted by boxofrocks

......
This was really an excercise to get other photographers thinking.

yes, and I appreciate that. While not a pro in the full-time sense, I do on occassion sell my train prints and always struggle with pricing. The usual story is that since I don't "make a living" from it, I shouldn't have to price it so high. But when I look at the others doing the same in that market, I come up with what the market will bear. And haven't had too many balk too loudly.

Actually, correct pricing should be not cost-based but market-based.

1) what does the market price say you can get for your work? part time, full time matters not.
2) take market price less your expenses = net profit
3) can you live on that?
4a) if not, reduce your costs until you either get a net profit you can live on; 4b) or get a different job that has a better net profit potential.


That's the way big companies that have to make money do it.

(I'm still seeing box o'frocks...)

gotcha!

[thehatguy]

Isn't your depreciation spread across your entire income for the entire year and not just 10 games?

How much are you claiming each year for depreciation?

John

[shaggyrockmer]

smug charges $600? wow

[Maggie Baldwin]

$5.00 is too cheap for the Houston area...it's $8.00 here and yes, they do pay that. And football fans will buy big prints (I mean 8x10, 16x20 and larger), if you take the right shot of the right kid. People still value a great photo.

[gregt1310]

Originally Posted by shaggyrockmer

smug charges $600? wow

I think that figure includes the Pro account as well as Smugmug's overhead (15%) for the printing, mailing, credit card, etc...

A Pro account with Smugmug is $149/yr , but I think Tom may be grandfathered at the old rate of $99 per year.

Tom... feel free to chime in here. I don't want to be speaking for you.

I'll take a look at my figures and post the results. Too much going on with Homecoming this week, and the TPPA Convention also.

[Tom]

And this is why I am avoiding that market. When I have kids that get old enough to play ball, I know I am going to be wrangled in somehow.

[boxofrocks]

Originally Posted by thehatguy

Isn't your depreciation spread across your entire income for the entire year and not just 10 games?

How much are you claiming each year for depreciation?

John

Without going into more detail I took half of my year's depreciation on the gear I use at football games (ond only that gear) and applied it in this example. I have way more than 50% wear and tear shooting football.

You can call it whatever you like, but you have to factor in the cost of your equipment in the cost of goods sold.

boxofrocks added 1 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by gregt1310

I think that figure includes the Pro account as well as Smugmug's overhead (15%) for the printing, mailing, credit card, etc...

A Pro account with Smugmug is $149/yr , but I think Tom may be grandfathered at the old rate of $99 per year.

Tom... feel free to chime in here. I don't want to be speaking for you.

I'll take a look at my figures and post the results. Too much going on with Homecoming this week, and the TPPA Convention also.

He's right. SM breaks it down for you in detailed reports, and I just took the gross minus profit for 10 football games last year and added the annual fee.

[thehatguy]

That's a $1.73 per picture.

Seems way to much.

John