Is a photo always the property of the Photographer?This is a discussion on Is a photo always the property of the Photographer? within the Business Talk forums, part of the Business Discussion category; Is a photo always the property of the photographer no matter what was photographed?...
(#1)
  | | Senior Member
Posts: 410 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin, TX, Texas Real First Name: J Camera: Canon Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 0  LIKES Received: 0 LIKES Given: 0 | Is a photo always the property of the Photographer? -
10-07-2009, 09:23 PM
Is a photo always the property of the photographer no matter what was photographed? | | |  | | Sponsored Links |
Premium Members do not see Google advertisements. SIGN UP today and help support our community.
| |
(#2)
| | Member
Posts: 113 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida, Florida Real First Name: Joe Camera: Nikon D700 Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 0 LIKES Received: 0 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-07-2009, 09:27 PM
Nope....there are times that I have to turn my memory card over after a shoot... I never ever get a chance to see what I shot.... And... If you do not copyright your images within 120 days of publishing them (loading them on the web) they are fair game for anyone to use..... I have learned the hard way!! (This may vary from state to state... I am quoting Florida law)
Joe
---------------------------
A camera is like a fine musical instrument. In the right hands it can make beautiful art....and in the wrong hands it can make nothing but noise.
--Joe McBroom--
Last edited by joemc; 10-07-2009 at 09:29 PM..
| | | | |
(#3)
| | tone-bending bas%@rd
Posts: 6,648 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Real First Name: Jeff Camera: Nikon Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 4 LIKES Received: 32 LIKES Given: 22 |
10-07-2009, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryicerx  Is a photo always the property of the photographer no matter what was photographed? | If you enter into a "work for hire" agreement, then the person who is paying for your services would own the photos, which I believe is what Joe is referring to.
Outside of that, you automatically have the copyright of any photo you take, just by the act of taking it. It doesn't matter what's in the photo, except to the extent that in some cases taking a photo of a copyrighted work could be a copyright violation. (For instance you can't take a photo of a copyrighted painting then sell prints). jeffkohn added 1 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below Quote:
Originally Posted by joemc And... If you do not copyright your images within 120 days of publishing them (loading them on the web) they are fair game for anyone to use..... I have learned the hard way!! (This may vary from state to state... I am quoting Florida law) | This is not true anymore, hasn't been true for decades. BTW copyright is a matter of federal law, FL law has nothing to do with it.
--------------------------- Jeff Kohn | The Majestic Landscape | Blog | More Images "The capacity to compose images is really the capacity to give coherence to sensed experience" - Robert Motherwell
Last edited by jeffkohn; 10-07-2009 at 09:34 PM..
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
| | | | |
(#4)
| | Member
Posts: 113 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida, Florida Real First Name: Joe Camera: Nikon D700 Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 0 LIKES Received: 0 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-07-2009, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkohn If you enter into a "work for hire" agreement, then the person who is paying for your services would own the photos, which I believe is what Joe is referring to.
Outside of that, you automatically have the copyright of any photo you take, just by the act of taking it. It doesn't matter what's in the photo, except to the extent that in some cases taking a photo of a copyrighted work could be a copyright violation. (For instance you can't take a photo of a copyrighted painting then sell prints).
jeffkohn added 1 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below
This is not true anymore, hasn't been true for decades. BTW copyright is a matter of federal law, FL law has nothing to do with it. | Really... I had a photo used last march and after a legal battle I lost for not copyrighting it?... Yeah...they had to give me credit for the photo...but they did not have to pay me?... Would love to know if you know something different because I would love to get paid from "script"
Unfortunately I have an attorney on retainer for this reason.
Joe
---------------------------
A camera is like a fine musical instrument. In the right hands it can make beautiful art....and in the wrong hands it can make nothing but noise.
--Joe McBroom--
Last edited by joemc; 10-07-2009 at 09:44 PM..
| | | | |
(#5)
| | You Can't Be Serious!!
Posts: 13,314 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: DFW, Texas Real First Name: Brad (duh) Camera: Canon Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 12 LIKES Received: 136 LIKES Given: 33 |
10-07-2009, 09:50 PM
Then you have a lousy lawyer.
The image is yours unless there is a different arrangement (work for hire being one).
If you do not register the copyright, the only thing that prevents you from doing is seeking punitive damages. You can still seek either fair use payment or you can tell them to cease and desist.
You need a new lawyer.
--------------------------- Brad Barton, Grand Prairie, TX (DFW) Twitter -- Blog -- Headshots -- Portraits
Honest critiques always welcomed.
An artist is not paid for his labor, but for his vision. -- James Whistler, Painter, 1834-1903 | | | | |
(#6)
| | Member
Posts: 113 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida, Florida Real First Name: Joe Camera: Nikon D700 Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 0 LIKES Received: 0 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-07-2009, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad Then you have a lousy lawyer.
The image is yours unless there is a different arrangement (work for hire being one).
If you do not register the copyright, the only thing that prevents you from doing is seeking punitive damages. You can still seek either fair use payment or you can tell them to cease and desist.
You need a new lawyer. | I guess one would need to define "yours"... Yes it is "yours"..But if others can use it without paying you then there is a question about "yours"
Yes.... You can tell them to cease use......and they must.... But they still do not have to pay you....unless THEY feel like it....If it is copyrighted... You hold all the cards...if it is not....... Your out of luck!!
Fair use payment is a very open term.
The attorney that I used is the same that represent Harrison Funk (a friend of mine)...He was Micheal Jackson's personal photographer for a decade.
I would guess that he would give me fair advice?
cheers, joe
---------------------------
A camera is like a fine musical instrument. In the right hands it can make beautiful art....and in the wrong hands it can make nothing but noise.
--Joe McBroom--
Last edited by joemc; 10-07-2009 at 09:59 PM..
| | | | |
(#7)
| | tone-bending bas%@rd
Posts: 6,648 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Real First Name: Jeff Camera: Nikon Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 4 LIKES Received: 32 LIKES Given: 22 |
10-07-2009, 09:59 PM
Quote: |
Really... I had a photo used last march and after a legal battle I lost for not copyrighting it?... Yeah...they had to give me credit for the photo...but they did not have to pay me?... Would love to know if you know something different because I would love to get paid from "script"
| As brad said, even if you hadn't yet registered the copyright, you can still enforce it and sue if someone infringes. In fact if this happens and you plan to take it to court it's a good idea to go ahead and register the image. Failing to register the copyright before the infringement takes place means that you cannot sue for punitive damages or court fees, but you can still sue for lost revenue, meaning whatever you would have gotten if they had paid to license the image from you. It sounds like maybe your lawyer "settled" for a photo credit instead of payment. Sometimes the 'lost revenue' amounts to less than what it would cost to take the case to court, so if you didn't register beforehand it may not make much economic sense to sue.
The only way they can use your image without your consent, registered or otherwise, is if the use fails under fair use.
--------------------------- Jeff Kohn | The Majestic Landscape | Blog | More Images "The capacity to compose images is really the capacity to give coherence to sensed experience" - Robert Motherwell
| | | | |
(#8)
| | Member
Posts: 113 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida, Florida Real First Name: Joe Camera: Nikon D700 Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 0 LIKES Received: 0 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-07-2009, 10:15 PM
Because this really interested me. I called Harrison and asked him this question... He stated to me that you are correct.... But if you can not sue for punitive damages or legal fees then what would be the point?.... The legal fees and court cost alone could be 20 grand..... To win what? "fair use payment" It is a lose lose if you do not copyright!
I guess that is why my attorney just made them stop using it?
I think I may have a good attorney??
Cheers, joe
---------------------------
A camera is like a fine musical instrument. In the right hands it can make beautiful art....and in the wrong hands it can make nothing but noise.
--Joe McBroom--
| | | | |
(#9)
| | tone-bending bas%@rd
Posts: 6,648 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston, Texas Real First Name: Jeff Camera: Nikon Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 4 LIKES Received: 32 LIKES Given: 22 |
10-07-2009, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemc Because this really interested me. I called Harrison and asked him this question... He stated to me that you are correct.... But if you can not sue for punitive damages or legal fees then what would be the point?.... The legal fees and court cost alone could be 20 grand..... To win what? "fair use payment" It is a lose lose if you do not copyright!
I guess that is why my attorney just made them stop using it?
I think I may have a good attorney??
Cheers, joe | I have no idea how much the actual legal fees would be, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they exceeded what you could recover in lost revenue, and I mentioned that in my previous post. But still, that's different from what you said in your first post when you stated that unregistered images would be "fair game for anyone to use". What the other party did to you was illegal, and even if it's not financially practical to take them to court you can at least make the stop using the image, or negotiate some other sort of settlement such as payment, a photo credit, etc.
--------------------------- Jeff Kohn | The Majestic Landscape | Blog | More Images "The capacity to compose images is really the capacity to give coherence to sensed experience" - Robert Motherwell
| | | | |
(#10)
| | You Can't Be Serious!!
Posts: 13,314 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: DFW, Texas Real First Name: Brad (duh) Camera: Canon Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 12 LIKES Received: 136 LIKES Given: 33 |
10-07-2009, 11:12 PM
What he said.
Sounds like you have a good lawyer, just you didn't understand what he was trying to explain until now.
--------------------------- Brad Barton, Grand Prairie, TX (DFW) Twitter -- Blog -- Headshots -- Portraits
Honest critiques always welcomed.
An artist is not paid for his labor, but for his vision. -- James Whistler, Painter, 1834-1903 | | | | |
(#11)
| | Permanently Banned
Posts: 15,341 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Tx, Real First Name: Tom Camera: canon Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 24 LIKES Received: 5 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-07-2009, 11:14 PM
Copyright laws are not that complicated and are easily researched on Google.
One thing that is hardly mentioned in these discussions is that you can put a zillion low res .jpegs on a CD-ROM and REGISTER them all at once.
Last edited by CaptainTom; 10-08-2009 at 08:54 AM..
| | | | |
(#12)
| | Supa Dupa Poster
Posts: 5,666 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cypress, Texas Real First Name: Ken Camera: Canon Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 2 LIKES Received: 97 LIKES Given: 82 |
10-08-2009, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainTom ....One thing that is hardly mentioned in these discussions is that you can put a zillion low res .jpegs on a CD-ROM and copyright them all at once. | slight correction: register them all at once. They were copyrighted the moment you took the pic, registered or not.
---------------------------
5th Generation Texian.
(line 2) Watch this, Spot!
(line 3) Have I shown you my photos of my grandson? Wait, don't run! Hey!
| | | | |
(#13)
| | Forum Master
Posts: 1,337 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Houston, Texas Real First Name: Bryan Camera: Nikon Can Others Edit My Photos: No iTrader Rating: 2 LIKES Received: 48 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-08-2009, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad The image is yours unless there is a different arrangement | Yup.
---------------------------
Bryan Lindsey
| | | | |
(#14)
| | Permanently Banned
Posts: 15,341 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Tx, Real First Name: Tom Camera: canon Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 24 LIKES Received: 5 LIKES Given: 0 |
10-08-2009, 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenw slight correction: register them all at once. They were copyrighted the moment you took the pic, registered or not. | Yes, thank you.  | | | | |
(#15)
| | Forum Master
Posts: 1,940 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wisteria Lane, Maine Real First Name: Ron Camera: Canon/Bronica/Mamiya TLR Can Others Edit My Photos: Yes iTrader Rating: 4 LIKES Received: 43 LIKES Given: 5 |
10-08-2009, 08:57 AM
you also have a 90 day window from date of publication. it can get messy of establishing when that 90 days begins...so it is probably best to just send the images in right after you take them. | | | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
| | | | Google Sponsors |
Premium Members do not see Google advertisements. SIGN UP today and help support our community.
| |
Copyright ©2004 - 2011, Abel Longoria - www.Pixtus.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc. |
