Help, Please

[celticmama36]

Nevermind. Thank you anyway.

[Valerie]

Careers in photography can go in many different directions. What specifically do you want to do? Weddings/ sr portraits/ stock photography/fine art/ etc etc.

[celticmama36]

Thank you for responding, Valerie. Fine art is what I believe it would be called. Scenics/landscapes as well as historical architecture is what I like to photograph.

[Valerie]

Well. there is NO employment outlook for fine art. No one hires us.

Some get lucky by selling images in galleries (and there are lots of categories of galleries).

You could sell your images thru your website.

I know a few photogrpahers who have done well by selling thru ebay.

Stock photography is also an option.

With a MFA, you can also teach.

Having said that, I love what I do and cannot imagine doing anything else.

[Tom]

Houston has about 4-5mm people.
Houston has less than 20 full-time salaried photographers.

What's the job outlook? Not great.

I frequently guest lecture for some imaging classes.

A photography degree is a big fat waste of money. Take the money you would spend on a degree, and use it on workshops and gear. And go take lots of pictures.

Landscape photographers are a dime a dozen. There are so many options, and so many people that throw all their pics up on microstock, that it is doubtful that you can make any money doing that.

A career in photography for people that aren't journalists and don't shoot weddings/portraits/sports are slim and none.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

A photography degree is a big fat waste of money.

For some maybe. For some of us, its been the best $ ever spent. Guess it depends on your pov.

[celticmama36]

Valerie, like you, I love what I do and can't imagine it any other way. :) Thanks for your willingness to help me.

[LEO III]

Just curious, Suzanne: Where are you going to school for your degree in photography?

Thanks.

[Tom]

Thomas, I don't believe that an education is EVER a waste of money.

Well, if you have money to spend, and just want to learn that is one thing. If you are using a photography degree to pursue a career, it is a big fast waste of time and money that you will probably never recoup.

Drop 80+ grand at the Art Institute and you can look forward to maybe getting a 20k/yr job. It is a HORRIBLE investment. There was a lot of talk last month that a photography job opened up in TEXAS. Yes, the entire state. I saw posts about it on multiple sites. You know what it paid? $12/hour, no benefits.

But if you have money to burn go ahead.

I think you will still do MUCH better buying equipment and spending a third as much money on Kelby Training for post processing, and Santa Fe and Maine workshops on how to shoot particular things. Then there is the good old experience.

Negativity will not get any of us anywhere.

I'm not being negative, I am being realistic. I am a full-time salaried photographer and on top of that, I work freelance and run a wedding photography business with my wife. In the past month, I have been published in ESPN the Magazine, USA Today, LA Times, the Chicago Tribune and many others. What

Not being realistic and just getting a degree to have a piece of paper doesn't help you much, especially if it is in a degree plan that can't be applied to much else. That is only going to hurt you in the long run.

A MUCH better plan would be to get a degree in marketing or some other aspect of business that you can apply to your own photography business. The toughest thing for most photographers is to learn both the creative and the business aspect. There are some really crappy photographers that are brilliant marketers and businesspeople and they succeed. And there are some brilliant photographers that suck at business and fail.

But a degree in photography is a waste. You cannot apply it to any thing else, and most of what you learn in your 36 hours can be taught over the course of a few intensive weeklong workshops. My formal photography education consists of 3 college credit hours, that was mainly focused on composition styles of photojournalism portraits and dark room techniques.

But, if you get a degree in business or marketing, you can use it for your photography career OR you can use it as a fall back if photography doesn't pan out (which for the majority of people is going to happen.)

what if the field were real estate photography? Is the outlook better there? I know that it can be done for realtors (though as I understand it, many of them do their own), and for mortgage and insurance companies. I just don't know where to look to find the information about it to fit the questions listed above.

The main realtors that use that are the ones that are listing 7-figure houses. Outside of that, realtors aren't wanting to spend the money on that type of thing, cause realtors don't get paid all that well and most don't see the benefit of paying you a few hundred dollars to do something they think they can do. As you can imagine, there aren't a ton of houses for sale in the 7-figure range. I looked into exploiting this market a few years back when times were better, and even then there really weren't takers. And again, there isn't a real job doing it. You could pick up supplementary gigs here and there, though.

[celticmama36]

Thank you all for your time. Have a great night.

celticmama36 added 59 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by LEO III

Just curious, Suzanne: Where are you going to school for your degree in photography?

Thanks.

The Art Institute, through their on-line program. Being out of remission does not allow me the opportunity to attend an on-campus school right now.

[ronocnikral]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

Well, if you have money to spend, and just want to learn that is one thing. If you are using a photography degree to pursue a career, it is a big fast waste of time and money that you will probably never recoup.

Drop 80+ grand at the Art Institute and you can look forward to maybe getting a 20k/yr job. It is a HORRIBLE investment. There was a lot of talk last month that a photography job opened up in TEXAS. Yes, the entire state. I saw posts about it on multiple sites. You know what it paid? $12/hour, no benefits.

Agreed, but I don't think i would ever discourage anyone from going to school. UNLESS I am paying for it. That can be in the form of government grants and/or subsidized loans. The main thing I can't take is the complaining about pay for such an "educated" person a few years after graduation.

[Valerie]

My education was an investment. There was no money to burn at the time--we had to work hard for the tuition. And has paid for itself already. The job I have I could not have without the degree.

And yes, you are being exceedingly negative. Perhaps your thoughts are correct for what you do. But we all don't want to do that. Some of us have other aspirations for our photography. There's room for it all. Giving an opinion, but then being supportive is a far better route to take. And is far more appreciated.

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

Well, if you have money to spend, and just want to learn that is one thing. If you are using a photography degree to pursue a career, it is a big fast waste of time and money that you will probably never recoup.

Drop 80+ grand at the Art Institute and you can look forward to maybe getting a 20k/yr job. It is a HORRIBLE investment. There was a lot of talk last month that a photography job opened up in TEXAS. Yes, the entire state. I saw posts about it on multiple sites. You know what it paid? $12/hour, no benefits.

But if you have money to burn go ahead.

I think you will still do MUCH better buying equipment and spending a third as much money on Kelby Training for post processing, and Santa Fe and Maine workshops on how to shoot particular things. Then there is the good old experience.


I'm not being negative, I am being realistic. I am a full-time salaried photographer and on top of that, I work freelance and run a wedding photography business with my wife. In the past month, I have been published in ESPN the Magazine, USA Today, LA Times, the Chicago Tribune and many others. What

Not being realistic and just getting a degree to have a piece of paper doesn't help you much, especially if it is in a degree plan that can't be applied to much else. That is only going to hurt you in the long run.

A MUCH better plan would be to get a degree in marketing or some other aspect of business that you can apply to your own photography business. The toughest thing for most photographers is to learn both the creative and the business aspect. There are some really crappy photographers that are brilliant marketers and businesspeople and they succeed. And there are some brilliant photographers that suck at business and fail.

But a degree in photography is a waste. You cannot apply it to any thing else, and most of what you learn in your 36 hours can be taught over the course of a few intensive weeklong workshops. My formal photography education consists of 3 college credit hours, that was mainly focused on composition styles of photojournalism portraits and dark room techniques.

But, if you get a degree in business or marketing, you can use it for your photography career OR you can use it as a fall back if photography doesn't pan out (which for the majority of people is going to happen.)


The main realtors that use that are the ones that are listing 7-figure houses. Outside of that, realtors aren't wanting to spend the money on that type of thing, cause realtors don't get paid all that well and most don't see the benefit of paying you a few hundred dollars to do something they think they can do. As you can imagine, there aren't a ton of houses for sale in the 7-figure range. I looked into exploiting this market a few years back when times were better, and even then there really weren't takers. And again, there isn't a real job doing it. You could pick up supplementary gigs here and there, though.

[ronocnikral]

Originally Posted by Valerie

My education was an investment. There was no money to burn at the time--we had to work hard for the tuition. And has paid for itself already. The job I have I could not have without the degree.

And yes, you are being exceedingly negative. Perhaps your thoughts are correct for what you do. But we all don't want to do that. Some of us have other aspirations for our photography. There's room for it all. Giving an opinion, but then being supportive is a far better route to take. And is far more appreciated.

For the record, stories like this don't bother me. A little hard work never hurt anyone. and it's admirable.

i think thomas had a good point that we can't all go out and get mfa's in photography and make a living off of it. at least I think that is his point. I would say go for it, but do your homework about what the other side holds for you.

I also agree that there is room for it all. we don't all need to be six figured salaried photographers either.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Valerie

My education was an investment. There was no money to burn at the time--we had to work hard for the tuition. And has paid for itself already. The job I have I could not have without the degree.

And yes, you are being exceedingly negative. Perhaps your thoughts are correct for what you do. But we all don't want to do that. Some of us have other aspirations for our photography. There's room for it all. Giving an opinion, but then being supportive is a far better route to take. And is far more appreciated.

Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say to skip education or that education is bad. I said what would help more in pretty much any career path in photography is a degree in business. This isn't a new thing. There are TONS of stories out there about people that got a photography degree from a private school like the Art Institute or Brooks, then there were no photography jobs out there to get.

A business degree is MUCH more versatile. If you are going to make it as a photographer, you HAVE to have business skills. You will use business skills in ANY form of professional photography you do.

Photography isn't difficult - there aren't secrets to it. You just need LOTS of experience. You can get all the training you really need by structuring a shooting schedule, going to a few workshops and reading a few books. Then shoot a lot more.

The photography market is saturated. People that used to make a ton of money with stock images (that's most landscape photographers) are losing to microstock that undercut them. People used to make money shooting sports for pay are getting undercut by people that are shooting on spec. The difference between going bankrupt and being successful will probably lie in your ability to market yourself, conduct business and turn a profit. That's not just for what I do, that is for everyone that wants to run their own business.

Life isn't all puppies and ice cream. Photography is fun, rewarding and exciting, and I am happy to give advice freely from my successes and failures in the business.

I'm not saying not to get a degree. But education is an investment in your future, and getting a degree that isn't flexible, has a low earning potential, is expensive and doesn't translate to many jobs is a poor investment. However, a business degree is VERY applicable to photography, is very flexible, will open up your earning potential in the photography world and the real world and translates to virtually any job.

Again, education is very important, and it is great that you are taking it back up now. Good luck with whatever you do.

[toverman]

I didn't read all the comments, but sadly for those of us with photojournalism passions, those jobs are dwindling as well.

But we could be doom and gloom all day ... images are still a commodity. It's just a harder road to travel to mix your passion and make a living. But never believe that it's not possible; that's when the dream dies for sure.