Non Profit wants Pics on CD...

[dracula02]

I'm racking my brain on how to respond to my acquaintance that is a member of the Non Profit that I shot an event for a few weeks ago (non paid of course ). I've only had the opportunity to make money off of the prints that I sell. My contact wants to know if I can provide the NP with a CD/DVD of all the pics I took, so that the NP can print them out for their "scrapbook" ... I believe that she's asking me because someone above her rank is asking her and they know that she has a good rapport with me since we worked on the HOA board in my neighborhood a few years ago. I feel that some of the committee members that put this together are interested in taking advantage of me by printing off whatever images they want at their leisure instead of ordering them through me. I've come up with a few potential responses:

1) No. (How dare you ask me that! )

2) Are you asking me for a donation, or is the NP interested in purchasing the digital images?

3) Sure, you can have them in 6 months after I've given everyone time to order what they're interested in ordering and the images are only going to be sized to a 4x6 with my logo on it.

I wanted to see which response would work best or if anyone has some other ideas.

Side note: I'm already slated to shoot their "Gala" at a ritzy country club in April and I have the potential to get more business from some of the members, attendees, and just basically get my name out there.

[photopam]

Why don't you print them yourself and texture them. They won't scan as well then, and they can still have the images for their scrapbook. Perhaps only give them images that have been ordered, that way the PP has already been done and they already have the images.

Hope this helps some!

[trac76002]

I was thinking option 3

[ldelacruz]

Since you didn't explain it upfront the you have 2 pretty good choices!

Give them low quality images sized to print 4x6.

Explain that you agreed to not charge per hour but can't give away the print rights.

[CaptainTom]

no. 1 - hardcore response. They'll never speak to you again.

no. 2 - likely they want you to donate the images. But, asking them is like asking you if you know what you are doing. It may be a valid question but it hurts the ego. Don't ask.

no.3 - I'd be inclined to talk to them about exactly what they want to use the images for. Spell out to them that they are YOUR images and you would just be letting them use them for XXXX usage.

no.4 - there was no no. 4, so I'll just advise that you get a clear understanding between parties about the Gala you are to shoot. Make sure they know you are trying to make some money, and that you are aware they are not for profit.

I worked for a nfp for 5 yrs. and we were always begging people for donations of everything. That's their mindset. What you need to remember is that just because they are not for profit doesn't mean they don't have any money.

[dracula02]

Originally Posted by photopam

Why don't you print them yourself and texture them. They won't scan as well then, and they can still have the images for their scrapbook. Perhaps only give them images that have been ordered, that way the PP has already been done and they already have the images.

Hope this helps some!

I had a brief though of that, but it takes time and money. Good suggestion though.

Originally Posted by trac76002

I was thinking option 3

That's the one that I was kinda leaning towards...


I just came up with another option.... I could add the ones that have been ordered to my facebook page and those that want a "copy" of them can add my fanpage and get it from there.... It's kind of a spinoff of #3

[Ahh!]

There's another way of looking at this. If you shoot an event, what do you charge for a CD/DVD of images? That's the value to them. They have sponsor levels tied to the advertising around an event. What's that value to you?

Make your deals in advance. Do they have the kind of advertising you want? Will advancing them a deal secure a first right of refusal on the next event's advertising be of value to you?

Or are you going to grovel around for a few eOrders be good enough for to meet your needs? Just some food for thought... Don't hate me. Just sayin'.

[dracula02]

Originally Posted by ldelacruz

Since you didn't explain it upfront the you have 2 pretty good choices!

Give them low quality images sized to print 4x6.

Explain that you agreed to not charge per hour but can't give away the print rights.

I need to explain this tactfully... I'm not very good at it. I'm usually a little more direct.

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

no. 1 - hardcore response. They'll never speak to you again.

no. 2 - likely they want you to donate the images. But, asking them is like asking you if you know what you are doing. It may be a valid question but it hurts the ego. Don't ask.

no.3 - I'd be inclined to talk to them about exactly what they want to use the images for. Spell out to them that they are YOUR images and you would just be letting them use them for XXXX usage.

no.4 - there was no no. 4, so I'll just advise that you get a clear understanding between parties about the Gala you are to shoot. Make sure they know you are trying to make some money, and that you are aware they are not for profit.

I worked for a nfp for 5 yrs. and we were always begging people for donations of everything. That's their mindset. What you need to remember is that just because they are not for profit doesn't mean they don't have any money.

Thanks Capt., this is exactly what I was thinking as well... Just to let you know, this is no small NFP. The way that it was stated to me for both events, "Could you take some pictures and you can put it up on your website and people could order them from you."

Me: "Sure thing!"

Few days after the first gig, NFP member phone call: "Are these prices on your website correct?"

Me: "yep"

NFP member: "You're sure gonna make a lot of money off of this"

Me: "huh" "uhh ok" (yeah right)

[dracula02]

Originally Posted by Ahh!

There's another way of looking at this. If you shoot an event, what do you charge for a CD/DVD of images? That's the value to them. They have sponsor levels tied to the advertising around an event. What's that value to you?

Make your deals in advance. Do they have the kind of advertising you want? Will advancing them a deal secure a first right of refusal on the next event's advertising be of value to you?

Or are you going to grovel around for a few eOrders be good enough for to meet your needs? Just some food for thought... Don't hate me. Just sayin'.

No hate here, very good point... I'm considering putting them under a contract after this shindig....

[dmcantrell]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

What you need to remember is that just because they are not for profit doesn't mean they don't have any money.

I was going to say this exact comment but Tom beat me to it. "Not for Profit" and "Charity Organization" are two different things.

[photopam]

When working with A NFP it is best to treat it like Marketing. What money/time you spend working with a Non-profit should be considered marketing. You are getting your name out there, and people love someone who helps others out. So I say, yes, give it away, and do it cheerfully. Who knows, they may print your image in the paper and give you photo credit. Free marketing! But that is only a plus to "giving back" don't expect anything in return. And that is how I would treat working with a non-profit organization as giving back to the community that supports your business. (Ask Sandy Puc about this!)

I don't know what kind of deal you have with them, or what type of session you are doing. But if it is anything directly for the Non-profit (not for them members individually) then do not charge them.

This is only my opinion. I am setting up something to raise money for a charity, I am not shooting for the organization, but if they asked me, I'd say Yes and happily give them the images to use. (Again, only for the organization like events and fundraisers, even head shoots for the webpage, and nothing personal, like family shoots, etc.)

I hope I explained my self ok. And hope this might help some.

Charitable Marketing is always good.

[dracula02]

Originally Posted by photopam

When working with A NFP it is best to treat it like Marketing. What money/time you spend working with a Non-profit should be considered marketing. You are getting your name out there, and people love someone who helps others out. So I say, yes, give it away, and do it cheerfully. Who knows, they may print your image in the paper and give you photo credit. Free marketing! But that is only a plus to "giving back" don't expect anything in return. And that is how I would treat working with a non-profit organization as giving back to the community that supports your business. (Ask Sandy Puc about this!)

I don't know what kind of deal you have with them, or what type of session you are doing. But if it is anything directly for the Non-profit (not for them members individually) then do not charge them.

This is only my opinion. I am setting up something to raise money for a charity, I am not shooting for the organization, but if they asked me, I'd say Yes and happily give them the images to use. (Again, only for the organization like events and fundraisers, even head shoots for the webpage, and nothing personal, like family shoots, etc.)

I hope I explained my self ok. And hope this might help some.

Charitable Marketing is always good.

I've already done a photo op for the committee heading up the gala in April and they're giving me photo cred in the local paper. My only concern is this "scrapbook" that they want to put together. How easy would it be some of these other members to get a hold of the images and print it for themselves? I don't begrudge the NFP any charitable donations from me, I'm just a product of human nature I guess. I think that I just need to talk to my acquaintance and get a clearer picture of what she's really asking me and explain to her in crystal clear detail that this is the money I'm using to put food on my table. I've gotten a few orders, nothing to write home about, but something that's better than nothing I guess. I agree completely to treat it like marketing, but I guess the reason these photos are such a big deal is that Barbara Bush was the keynote speaker and not only did I shoot the event when she was giving the speech, but also separate photos for the committee members in a separate holding area with the secret service. That was fun!

[CaptainTom]

NFP member: "You're sure gonna make a lot of money off of this"

I hear this a lot.
It doesn't bother me as much as it used to.
I may take a moment and explain my expenses in equipment, time, expertise, etc. Most people think that because they can get a 4X6 at Walgreens for 19 cents, that because you are charging $8 for one is "highway robbery".
I feel the same way when I go to get my car serviced or when I get a blood test at the hospital. Photography is not a necessary commodity. It is a luxury.
Luxuries can come cheap or they can come expensive. Hire me, and you'll understand the difference in price and quality.


You can work with the NFP if you handle them right. Make sure they know you realize their financial limitations, and make sure you let them know that YOU are NOT not for profit.

I had a monthly contract with a local NFP. Some months I was paid for doing very little. Other months they were getting their monies worth. We were both comfortable with the arrangement and that's what counts in my book.


To paraphrase an old saying.

Someone asked me what my job was with T3 Studios.
I told them I was a photographer and my job was to get the absolutely best photographs possible under the most difficult circumstances.
They asked me why it cost so much money.
I said " My job is to work for T3 Studios, and T3 Studios business is to make money"

[dracula02]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

"My job is to work for T3 Studios, and T3 Studios business is to make money"

This should be your tagline, I love it

So how did your deal work with the NFP, and how did you ask them to hire you?

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by dracula02

This should be your tagline, I love it

So how did your deal work with the NFP, and how did you ask them to hire you?

I was paid a fixed sum each month.

I had done a couple of events for them and they hated to cut a check each time. I offered to work on a monthly basis and they agreed. I basically contracted to up to XX number of hours of photo work and over that would be billed seperately. Some months I worked one short event or shot a new headshot and some months I worked my full hours and then some.