New professional could use some advertising help

[3dshark]

I do have backup equipment available to me it's just not mine. I was going to grab a simple d50 off craigslist for backup. Old iron sides itself lol. It is low in the mp but it uses all of the same lenses that my D80 does. and you can get the body only for about 150-300. That is in the price range for this month. I planned on getting a D300s or better within the next 6 months and making the D80 my backup.

Would you recommend anything else as a backup in that price range? I would like it to use my current lenses and future DX format lenses. Keep in mind this is only my 3 month budget. If I should just wait and get the D300s let me know.

Thank you.

[Tom]

Do you have any helpful information to state?

I've given plenty. You think you know what you are doing and are too proud to take any of it. Judging by your "portfolio" you really aren't ready to be a professional photographer.

Its not polite to call my gear "crappy" There are people that have done more with less then what I have.

Yeah? Who? I doubt you can come up with many people that can support a family on their photography skills with less than $1000 of camera gear and no formal training.

I don't really care if it hurts your feelings. If it does, your skin is way to thin to be a photographer, as an extremely important part of photography is getting harsh criticisms that you use to make your photography better.

I believe your statement simply comes from being a cannon man.

Then you are wrong again. Canon has similar gear. It is all consumer gear. That's fine if you are taking snapshots. Heck, I enjoyed my 50mm 1.8 when I was learning and gave it away last night to someone who wants to learn photography, as it is a great learning lens. But when you are entering the realm of professional photography, its all crap. You may book little craigslist gigs with consumer products, but you will never be able to actually run a business and be successful with it.

As far as formal training. I completed the mail order New York institute of Photography coarse. Thanks for looking.

And you think that makes you ready to be a professional photographer? It takes a lot more than that. And Strobist 101 would have prepared you much more to be a professional wedding and portrait photographer at a much better price.

This thread is for help not just for myself but for all of us beginner professional photographers. If you have nothing nice to say......you know the rest.

You realize that you don't hold yourself to the same standards as you are trying to hold me to, right?

Accept to Thomas that flamed my gear.

Really? Are you that attached to your gear? It is a tool. Guess what, I've had a lot of crappy gear. I still have my kit lenses somewhere in a box in my garage. They are crap and I would never use them in a professional sense. I don't think most people are so thin skinned as to get set off by having an inanimate object called crappy.

Also, I hope you use better grammar when interacting with clients than you do on here.

I would never ask what a high level pro is doing now for advertisement as that would be of no benefit to anyone accept their competition. That would hurt them.

I'll happily tell you what I do. Not a thing. I've never advertised. I've never listed my wedding business with The Knot or any other website.

I mean to ask what did they do when they started out.

I studied hard. I took criticism. I waited years. I built a portfolio and had professionals who were at a point I wanted to be at critique it and tell me it was ****. I learned from great photographic minds that had decades of experience. I sure didn't bitch everytime I heard something I didn't want to hear.

And I saved up while in a job I didn't like to have the gear I thought I needed to be a full-time professional. Before I left that job, I had:
10D+Grip (2x)
Tamron 28-75mm 2.8
Sigma 70-200mm 2.8
Canon 50mm 1.8
Sigma 300mm 2.8
Lensbaby 2.0 (what a ****ty investment that was)
iBook with Photoshop Essentials 3.0? (the crappy version of photoshop that I could afford.)
Two sigma flashes

One the the striking differences between my experience here and what seems to be happening to your experience here is humility.

Quoted for Truth.

[Jeff_Green]

I shot with my D70 for a few years up until I purchased my D300, now my D70 is my backup so I think your goal of the D300 primary and D80 as backup is a good goal. Just remember that it is a game of leapfrog! In a couple years, your D300 will be your backup... it never stops.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Jeff_Green

I shot with my D70 for a few years up until I purchased my D300, now my D70 is my backup so I think your goal of the D300 primary and D80 as backup is a good goal. Just remember that it is a game of leapfrog! In a couple years, your D300 will be your backup... it never stops.

This is so true.

And unfortunate </my wife>

[3dshark]

Thomas breathe.

I'm just stating that no ones gear is crap. There are different levels of professional photography. I am on the bottom rung. You appear to be at the top. I will do my best to listen to your advice. I just don't like the demeaning manner it seems to have been delivered. We all have the same interest and we can talk as friends. Not enemies.

What did you do to fill up your portfolio when you started out?
Freebies, Tag along?
What material did you study?
What helped you out the most?

You are in a different realm with your sports and travel photojournalism then I expect myself to be but your information should prove useful to everyone here.

Thanks :)

[Tom]

I'm just stating that no ones gear is crap.

You are wrong. Kit lenses are crap. Sorry. We all start out somewhere.

I just don't like the demeaning manner it seems to have been delivered.

Sorry. You need to grow thicker skin. You have the same entry level gear that any mom or dad can get at Costco to take snapshots of junior. You need to ask yourself how you are different and how you can convince them that you are different. Anyone with a free afternoon can snap some shot and put them on smugmug. How can you use your gear to produce something better than someone with a Canon G10?

There are different levels of professional photography. I am on the bottom rung.

Getting paid to shoot something doesn't make you a professional photographer.

You appear to be at the top.

I'm so far from the top that I can't see it. Robert Seale, Joe McNally, Vincent LaForet, etc are at the top. But I am good enough to make a living doing it and for the most part, I really enjoy it.

What did you do to fill up your portfolio when you started out?

I studied photojournalism in school. High school and college. I have a degree sitting in a tube somewhere in my garage to prove it. I have read dozens if not hundreds of books on everything from photography to marketing. I have attended workshops. I have volunteered to assist professional photographers. Most important at all, I shot all the time. I kept a journal of what I shot and why I shot it, then studied what I did, the criticism I got on it and used my notes to get better.

You are in a different realm with your sports and travel photojournalism then I expect myself to be but your information should prove useful to everyone here.

Sports and travel photography are for fun. Portraits, events and weddings pay the bills.

You should tone down your snarkyness and defensiveness. We aren't trying to hurt you. There have been hundreds of people like you before and there will be more after you as well.

Right now, you simply do not have the gear to be a full-time professional. You do not have the eye to be a full time professional. You do not have the experience to be a full-time professional. That doesn't mean you can't ever be. But it does mean that you should find or stay at another job while you save up to have the proper equipment and experience to be a full-time professional photographer. You can develop all those things. And you need to develop them to do the job.

Years ago, I had a degree, some decent but not great equipment and some nice shots in my portfolio. I thought I was hot stuff. I was sorely wrong and all that stuff that was in my portfolio has long since been hidden out of shame. It was crap. It sucked. I don't want people to see it. I've developed an eye for what is good. I still sometimes think my stuff is nice when it isn't, but luckily I have friends that aren't afraid to tell me when something is ****. I'm man enough to understand that they aren't doing that to be mean, but rather to help me better develop my eye and my ability.

It is hard to do. It takes YEARS of practice. There is no other way around it. You have to spend untold THOUSANDS of HOURS to really learn photography and all the intricacies involved. It takes a long time and lots of criticism.


If you really want to be a photographer full-time...
Your best bet is to find a job that pays you well enough to put back money to buy gear. Contact some talented local photographers (DFW is crawling with them) and offer to be an assistant. See what they do. Ask them questions. Read lots of books and blogs. GO through Strobist 101 and 102. Shoot a lot. Post pictures and ask for honest criticism. Learn how to take criticism and not be a cry baby when you hear things you don't like, but use that criticism to make yourself better. There are a lot of good photographers with a vast array of specialties that are willing to help you for the grand price of zero. Utilize that. You won't like everything you hear, but no one is on here just to be mean. You won't like everything you read, but that doesn't mean it is wrong. Remember that we all started from nothing and we have all been where you are. But a mail-order class and a consumer camera and lens don't make you a professional photographer.

[snydersnapshots]

Originally Posted by 3dshark

Ken,

I would love to do that but at my target rate of growth I don't think i will be able to hire anyone for any aspect in my 5 year target. I will of coarse re-check my target annually but for now I just cant afford it. thank you thought. It is a good idea for later.

The SBA is a government organization and the help they provide is free as far as I know. Well, nothing's free, but the cost is borne by the taxpayers. There's no direct cost to you. Sounds like you've got it under control though.

[klynam]

Man, tough crowd...tough crowd...but I think you're handling it pretty well overall; standing your ground here and there, trying to turn the conversation back to a positive direction elsewhere.

Most newbs quickly take the bait and the conversation completely degrades into name calling and "let's settle this outside" posts. You're up to the second page of posts and everything is still in (relatively) civil dialogue.

(And as you now see, looking back on my original post, there was still a L-O-N-G way to go before "brutal" honesty kicked in - LOL!!!)

Chin up - keep shooting - do the best you can with what you have - upgrade your tech and talent as opportunities present themselves.

One more bit of advance advice: For heaven's sake, PLEASE use Google and this forum's search function - heavily I might add - before asking ANY questions. Odds are very high the answer is already here and/or easily accessible somewhere online. If you think you've been ripped on this thread, you aint seen nutt'n till a newb joins and asks something elementary. Heck, I've been here 3.5 years and I still get ripped for that (and sometimes rightly so.)

[texkam]

Haven't read all posts, but you really need to remove the OOF shots from your website. In almost every case, if you miss the shot you got to accept it and move on.

[Tom]

let me reiterate that this is a great place to start your career. we want you to join us. even though many of us have tons of experience.... we all learn something here.

find people in your area and go shoot with them.

post your stuff and ask how you can get better.

but most of all.. enjoy it all. the career isn't for everyone but the hobby can be.

[ChristopherCoy]

[klynam]

Pecking order established...

big group hug...

everyone back to their seats please...

[3dshark]

lol. group hug.

Sounds solid I will look forward to following all the advice here. It should put me on the fast track to the level I would like to be. Thanks everyone.

O I had an idea for a forum game I was going to start. Take the best picture you can from the seat your sitting it now. I hope you all join that one it sounded like fun.

[3dshark]

I did make the complete move to getting my livelihood from photography. Legally that does make me a professional photographer as well as being paid for my work the first time. I will hold my ground on that.

I do understand that the 20+ year pros like most of the uber posters in here get offended that a newbie like me calls then selfs a pro.

I always thought that it would be nice to have different levels preceding "professional" so that way people would know what level of pro they are talking to. Something like career money earned or total images sold or something along those lines. Like a credit card lol. A gold photographer is 5 years + or a platinum pro is 10 years lol.

But as far as I am concerned I must claim professional photographer on my taxes so thats what I am.

That is a whole 20 page thread in itself hehe.

[johnastovall]

I guess Ansel Adams would not count as much of a photographer in your "Professional" world.

“Twelve significant photographs in any one year is a good crop.” - Ansel Adams