Carrot on a stick?

[movingex]

So I do a family shoot for a Bishop last week which was set up by his wife. During the shoot they mention the possibility of me doing a church directory for the Bishop's church. Sounds great. The shoot is based on them purchasing prints from my portrait prices.

After viewing the images online this morning the wife mentions that they need a couple of digital images of the Bishop for his national headquarters. This was not discussed prior to this morning.

She didn't specify how the images would be used by the national headquarters but they need them by the end of the week.

Should I just throw in the digital images for free in hopes of catching the bigger fish in doing the church directory (possibly more clients also) or should I charge extra for the digital images? If so how much? Never been in this situation before so I'm not sure how to proceed.

I'm leaning towards free but I'm not feeling too good about it.

[HotHolly]

Oh goodness!

Tips - Always proof in person. It really helps clarify stuff. Sometimes people ask for the negs and what they really want is anything from facebook photos to full reprint rights. They dont know what they are asking for and use generic language to ask. Dont assume anything. Ask what its being used for.

And if you want to, charge a separate rate for stuff. If you want, tell them your stuff is normally worth $XZY but you will gift all of it if they will give you an agreement to shoot the directory. It sounds like you're after that. Using one fish to catch another is OK as long as you KNOW which is the fish you want. Once in a while, this will bite you on the butt if you guess wrong.

Always be very clear about what you are selling, & use written contracts for EVERYTHING (it protects you, them, and eliminates confusion). eg - How are they supposed to know what rights you released unless its specified?

[texkam]

Respect your work, price it all out and have confidence in yourself. If you're good and your prices are consistent with your peers they should not want to switch to another shooter knowing you do good work. If they do go with someone else it is because they are playing the low ball game and you probably don't want a client like that anyway.

[ggeen]

Or you could "gift" the images to the Bishop for use at the headquarters as a tax deductible donation to the church...and get a receipt for that.

[movingex]

Originally Posted by ggeen

Or you could "gift" the images to the Bishop for use at the headquarters as a tax deductible donation to the church...and get a receipt for that.

I like this idea a lot. i've already replied back and established the fact that the usage/pricing for this type of image is different from the family pictures. I asked her to let me know how the images would be use and with that I could establish pricing.

I can now put a added value on the "donation" while exploring the opportunity to do church directories and such.

[Howard Barlow]

Originally Posted by ggeen

Or you could "gift" the images to the Bishop for use at the headquarters as a tax deductible donation to the church...and get a receipt for that.

I'm sure you know this, but, when you donate prints, you can only deduct your lab cost, not the retail value. If you donate the image file, you have no cost of goods. Your time, or profit margin, cannot be deducted.

[ggeen]

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

I'm sure you know this, but, when you donate prints, you can only deduct your lab cost, not the retail value. If you donate the image file, you have no cost of goods. Your time, or profit margin, cannot be deducted.

Ack! I did not think about that. : Hmmm, now what?

[movingex]

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

I'm sure you know this, but, when you donate prints, you can only deduct your lab cost, not the retail value. If you donate the image file, you have no cost of goods. Your time, or profit margin, cannot be deducted.

Drat, drat, and double drat!", "Triple drat!" and even "Curses, foiled again!

Well, at least she will know that the images are not free and if I let them have them they are gifts that are of a certain value.

[ronocnikral]

I always operate under the philosophy of, one in hand is better than two in the bush.

I also always say...you know what is better than a tax deduction? Cash in my pocket.

[texkam]

I don't see any indication where the Bishop or the church is destitute. Charge them a fair price and give them your best work. They should be proud to help support someone who does good work for a fair price. If you then want to donate to the church, go right ahead.

If you were dealing with a big worldwide corporation would you price things differently? Would that be moral?

[CaptainTom]

Everyone wants to get a "deal". even the Bishop.
Either decide to charge or give them for free.

I'd explore the free option some more. Get them to agree about the church directory (this is a cash cow), and then you can give them the images with a clean conscience and a full wallet.
Charge them now and you might get the directory, but if they are disappointed they will look elsewhere. YMMV

[ggeen]

Hmmm, Captain sounds like the voice of reason. Sounds good in theory anyway.

[*Mike*]

My only caveat is that it is hard to do church directories and compete with the big guys out there. If the church has done this before, or decides to price shop, you'll have a hard time coming up with a winning bid that makes it worthwhile.

[Howard Barlow]

Originally Posted by ggeen

Hmmm, Captain sounds like the voice of reason. Sounds good in theory anyway.

Tom is a theory.

[toverman]

Are church directories really that lucrative? It takes an incredible amount of work, organization and good studio equipment (which you might already have). An assistant or two (one to help pose and another to gently upsell) would probably be a huge help.

Last time our church hired out the photography, some guy from a large photo company showed up with a wrinkled shirt and surly attitude. Every family got a free 8x10, which was eventually included in the directory that we got two years later (ack!). We paid for a digital mat for our "free" photo, but not sure why. Nobody in the directory looks real happy because we were herded through an assembly line, the photog was running behind schedule, it was a real pain. We weren't going to buy anything else after the horrible experience and mediocre image.

The next directory photos are being shot in-house (I didn't get roped into doing this, thankfully) using hot lights and a bed-sheet background. The insanity! Maybe we can submit a family photo.