Question about Pricing a tiny engagement session - it's complicated. lol

[todd_a]

I have a friend, or rather a work acquaintance that I am friendly with, who is engaged and her mother wants a good photo to run in the paper announcing the engagement. They are a really young couple and they have moved here from Mississippi away from their family for him to find work, and, of course, are not able to afford a "professional photographer" for this.

She came to me this morning asking what I would charge them for doing this, knowing that I do photography as an amature who is aspiring to become a professional. I did not offer a price, as I told her I did not have a set price worked out (not being in the business at this point), but that I would figure it out and get that to her.

What I had in mind was to see if I could get them to participate in more of a full-on engagement session that I could use for my portfolio, and at the same time, from that, produce the photo they are looking for to satisfy mom back home.

Since this would me more of a Time for Prints (or electronic images anyway) type situation, should I charge them anything for doing this? And if so, how much? Since they are only looking for a single decent shot (they attempted this on their own with a camera and tripod over the weekend and didn't get anything usable) and I am looking to benefit from Portfolio filler, experience and possibly some word of mouth advertizing.

I am not taking anything away from any photographers in the area because if we don't strike a deal, then they will just make more attempts on their own until they get one that is good enough.

So, is the experience, portflio additions and possible word of mouth advertizing enough payment in this situation?

Thanks,
Todd

[bondarnes]

If I were in your situation I would tell them that if they will do a full session and give me a release for my portfolio, that I will give them a session and a few of the best images on a CD with a copyright release. And If they really have a good time and are pleased with the images, I wouldn't refuse a gift card to my favorite (restaurant, camera store, etc.)

[dracula02]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

if i were in your situation i would tell them that if they will do a full session and give me a release for my portfolio, that i will give them a session and a few of the best images on a cd with a copyright release. And if they really have a good time and are pleased with the images, i wouldn't refuse a gift card to my favorite (restaurant, camera store, etc.)

+1

[Jessica Merritt]

I agree with Don. This one sounds like a freebie to me.

But you do have to make sure that they understand the value that you are giving them, because it sounds like they don't really care about photography at all, and that can kind of put you in a weird situation sometimes down the road.

I would do it for free, with an invoice for a full session that shows a 100% discount, as well as a contract that includes the all-important model release.

[todd_a]

This is along the same lines as what I was thinking. Awesome!

My only question about the approach with a discounted invoice would be, Since I am not in business yet, could there be any issues involved in me having an invoice out there for an amount, even though it was discounted 100%? I am talking about State issues involving sales tax - as in, am I responsible for paying the sales tax on the pre-discounted amount? Or does the fact that money never changed hands for a service mean that there was not a taxable amount in the first place?

I hear that is a touchy subject from what I have researched so far.

[lyncca]

I agree with doing it as a freebie. For the sales tax, if I buy something at the store that is on sale, I don't pay tax on the original amount, so I would assume this is the same. That's is how I charge my clients on tax too, so I hope that is right!

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by lyncca

I agree with doing it as a freebie. For the sales tax, if I buy something at the store that is on sale, I don't pay tax on the original amount, so I would assume this is the same. That's is how I charge my clients on tax too, so I hope that is right!

I was just concerned about eyebrows being raised because of the 100% discount over just a 5%, 10%, or 25% or even 50% discount.

I will probably just go ahead and do it this way though.

Thanks!!!

[meganh]

I completely agree with the invoice showing a 100% discount or "fees waived", etc. It was my findings when I was portfolio building (and even now when I do quick "freebie" stuff for "friends"- the less you value your work the more they want! Crazy I know but it has happened EVERY time I haven't asserted the value of my work.
I'm sure you will get some great images!

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by meganh

I completely agree with the invoice showing a 100% discount or "fees waived", etc. It was my findings when I was portfolio building (and even now when I do quick "freebie" stuff for "friends"- the less you value your work the more they want! Crazy I know but it has happened EVERY time I haven't asserted the value of my work.
I'm sure you will get some great images!

It definitely makes sense. I've been reading a lot of older threads about starting a business here on the site, and this very issue keeps popping up - Basically photogs that are trying to build up their portfolios and even get their work out there end up charging a very low amount for some initial work or even free, and then it seems that the trend is that the next time those same customers want to get more photos, they expect to get them for the same discount or free, from that point on indefinitely.

Also, another common theme was that referrals off of free work tend to attract customers that also want the same pricing.

I am definitely going to use invoices from here on out with discounts where applicable. Only bad thing about that is I will need to go ahead and establish a pricing structure at this point which was something I was hoping to put off until closer to time to officially open for business.

The only reason I have not already made the jump and started official business and did all the legal stuff at this point is that I am currently working at a place where the boss told me he did not want me working on the side, especially on my own business. They had a previous employee that did that and screwed it up for everyone else in the future because he was handling his side business stuff while he was on his employer's time. Anyway, my two main bosses both scour over the legal news for the county and as soon as I come out in there, questions will begin and, I fear, it may be the end of my regular income job that I depend on. So, I got some hurdles to get over in that area somehow.

[STP Images]

Originally Posted by todd_a

Basically photogs that are trying to build up their portfolios and even get their work out there end up charging a very low amount for some initial work or even free, and then it seems that the trend is that the next time those same customers want to get more photos, they expect to get them for the same discount or free, from that point on indefinitely.

Also, another common theme was that referrals off of free work tend to attract customers that also want the same pricing.

At some point, every photographer does a portfolio building shoot. I've done it as I've branched into new areas of offerings in order to have strong portfolio images to pimp my work to full paying clients. I have also fought the battle you mention above. Here is what I do to avoid this:

I bring them into the studio for a consultation. I explain to them WHY they are getting this great deal. I also tell them that I will extend a drastically reduced rate IF (and ONLY if) they sign a contract stating that the work will be done at the deep discount in exchange for non-disclosure of the discount. In other words, they feel like they're getting a REALLY good deal that no one else gets, and you give it MUCH more credence by having them sign a contract that states they cannot reveal the pricing to anyone else. Of course, if they choose to tell, they will, but I have found that if you deliver the message properly, they love the agreement and they will then go out and show their photos as if they've paid a high price for them. Your referrals from this client then have no expectations of discounts.

Use your own version of it, but this works for me the few times a year when I do this.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by STP Images

At some point, every photographer does a portfolio building shoot. I've done it as I've branched into new areas of offerings in order to have strong portfolio images to pimp my work to full paying clients. I have also fought the battle you mention above. Here is what I do to avoid this:

I bring them into the studio for a consultation. I explain to them WHY they are getting this great deal. I also tell them that I will extend a drastically reduced rate IF (and ONLY if) they sign a contract stating that the work will be done at the deep discount in exchange for non-disclosure of the discount. In other words, they feel like they're getting a REALLY good deal that no one else gets, and you give it MUCH more credence by having them sign a contract that states they cannot reveal the pricing to anyone else. Of course, if they choose to tell, they will, but I have found that if you deliver the message properly, they love the agreement and they will then go out and show their photos as if they've paid a high price for them. Your referrals from this client then have no expectations of discounts.

Use your own version of it, but this works for me the few times a year when I do this.

Yeah! This takes the discounted invoice a couple of steps further, resolving any question involved. I like it!

[tertius]

Tag.