LARGE shoot - what would you charge.

[JStrattonPhotography]

A current client of mine contacted me regarding doing a 4 generation session for her family. great grandparents, their 5 sons and their spouses, 10 grandkids and their 6 spouses, and 11 great grandkids. That is 39 people and the photo combinations are well over 50. I anticipate it taking about 4 hours and I will have an assistant there. Oh, and they only want 1 cd so they can get prints for everyone. The typical sitting fee is $100 for up to 5 people and then $25/person after that. Considering the amount of money I will lose in print sales I am torn on what to charge them. I was considering $1200-$1500 but worry they will balk. Thoughts?

[peeker]

If you are worried they will balk with a high price... they might. If you are worried about making money on this shoot, you might. I would confidently explain that your quotation is different than a normal session fee for such a large family.

I would charge them a 1/2 day rate, upwards of $2000 to include a CD of images. You know they are going to copy the CD and pass it around the family, they won't buy any prints from you, and you are going to have to herd cattle for this shoot.

If they value you and your time, they will pay.

To justify the quote, I would simply show them what they would end up spending if they bought 1/2 of the presentable images in wallets, 5x7's and 8x10's for each part of the family, plus the four hours of your time, and you will probably come out with a number that is higher than the rate you are going to charge.

If they are going to balk at $1200, they will probably balk also at $1000. You have to determine if it is worth it to you to shoot, post process and give your images away less than $1000.

[pbyd]

Why do you give the images on cd with out getting paid for them? Don't you charge for your prints, if so you should charge per-image for your images on cd.
Wayne
Photography by Design

Julie,
I just looked at your web site and you have your prices online, so unless you can blow smoke up the clients %#@^, I would think that as a business you will have to follow your pricing guide that you have made public on the web, if not I would understand why your client would balk.
As a business person you have to follow the same price for all if you are going to make it public or you will have complaints from a lot of clients.

[JStrattonPhotography]

Originally Posted by pbyd

Why do you give the images on cd with out getting paid for them? Don't you charge for your prints, if so you should charge per-image for your images on cd.
Wayne
Photography by Design

Julie,
I just looked at your web site and you have your prices online, so unless you can blow smoke up the clients %#@^, I would think that as a business you will have to follow your pricing guide that you have made public on the web, if not I would understand why your client would balk.
As a business person you have to follow the same price for all if you are going to make it public or you will have complaints from a lot of clients.

I DON'T give the image files without getting paid for them. I do sell prints as well as image file.

OK, how is it blowing smoke up anyone's @? My site lists my basic session fees as well as the fact that the premium package (up to 5 people) includes 20 images on disc. THIS client is 39 people total (JUST the session fee alone WITH $5/person OFF from the usual $25/extra person is $800) and they want a minimum of 50+ images on disk which is 30+ images MORE than is included on the disk with my regular package. So if anything I am actually cutting them a deal.

[pbyd]

" So if anything I am actually cutting them a deal. "[/QUOTE]

Then if you are cutting them a deal I am sure they will not "Balk"

Just saying,
Wayne

[Howard Barlow]

I've never understood charging more for additional people. Actually, I will be amazed, not to mention impressed, if they pay a $12-1500 sitting fee. I can understand a minimum purchase for a group that size, but not a sitting fee that high.

First off, other than the big group, I would bet money you will have several families that will have no interest in a separate session.

I would entice them to pose, and hope to make my money on sales, not sessions.

Hope it works for you, either way. Let us know.

[toverman]

I've shot some large groups of people (at weddings, events, for work, etc.) and it is extremely difficult to photograph so many at one time and have everyone think they look good afterward. If you plan on taking four hours with that many people, I would bet none of them would be smiling during the actual photos.

Professional Photographer had an issue a few months back about a guy in Utah who has become an expert at photographing large families. He shoots individual groups in his studio using the same lighting/backdrop/measurements from subject to camera and then combines them digitally for very nice shots.

None of this is meant as a personal attack on you:

If you're worried about losing money, don't take the job.
If you're not an expert at posing individuals into groups, and groups into other groups, don't take the job.
If you won't have at least three assistants (heck, or more), don't take the job.
If you don't already have portable, reliable studio lighting and the mastery it will take to evenly light such a large group at one time, don't take the job.

Or take the job, not my deal.

[Monreal]

What lighting setup do you have??

[pbyd]

None of this is meant as a personal attack on you:

If you're worried about losing money, don't take the job.
If you're not an expert at posing individuals into groups, and groups into other groups, don't take the job.
If you won't have at least three assistants (heck, or more), don't take the job.
If you don't already have portable, reliable studio lighting and the mastery it will take to evenly light such a large group at one time, don't take the job.

Or take the job, not my deal.[/QUOTE]

May I quote you over and over again? This is some of the best advise I have heard in a long time.

Thank you,
Wayne
Photography by Design

[Flea77]

I have to agree with Howard. When doing this type of work I charge by the hour. so....

1 person for four hours = rate*4, 100 people for four hours = rate*4

Of course Todd has some excellent advice as well.

Allan

[WarrenG]

Wow, 4 hours is a lofty goal indeed. With 21 kids, you are going to have a tough time keeping them attentive, and parents will be distracted because of the childrens behavior. You will need a large number of posing blocks to maintain height as well.

There is a fair amount of set-up time for your lighting, and the lining up /posing, but I would not expect you to be onsite 4 hours? I think if you are there 2 hours, it may feel like 6, but that is a lot of shooting time.

If you take the job, I would price the shoot time according to your pricing structure so you recoup your costs and make your profit. The shoot is a seperate part of the job, and is paid as such. Then provide a per hi-res image price, proof your unedited images to the client, and let them pick out the images they would like. You can PP only the images they choose. Make sure your per image price is in-line with what you typically sell in prints from a portrait session. You can might throw out a golden carrot and say if they spend $xxxx.xx or more, you will provide them with 5 free 11x14 prints or whatever you might choose....

[toverman]

I try to push myself beyond my comfort level at times; it's a great way to improve. But I've also come to realize – through my own mistakes – that sometimes a task is beyond me.

I'm not saying that's the case with the OP and this scenario. A four-generation portrait has the potential to be something very special and somewhat unique in these times. But the challenges could (for me, that word is "would") be enough to make me pass on the job. Definitely, if the OP goes for it, I hope it goes very well.

This being a past client, you should have some idea what they will pay. My guess is they think they're going to pay something similar to what they've paid you in the past, maybe a little more. But only the client can make that decision.

[carrbowl]

So lets be positive. I would look at how many "families" you have and how much you like/how much your average/ or what your bottom line is for each "family". Then multiply it be the number of "families" and give them that fee.

As far as getting them to photograph...it may be tough depending on ages...and I think two people would be tough. You almost need one in the wings posing and one photographing/posing. Good luck Julie..hope you get the job and it goes well.

[TxTowman]

I am very good at herding cattle. (Literally) Need some more help?

[reader0428]

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

I've never understood charging more for additional people.

My business model is to present my client with 25-35 fully edited/retouched images from their full session. So if I have a family with eight people, (and let's say three of them are teenagers with bad acne), that is twice or three times the amount of PP work I am doing vs. 4 people to fix all the eyes, teeth, skin, etc. on every shot I show them. That's why I charge extra for additional people. I know others will show one retouched photo and explain that the others they decide to purchase will be similarly retouched, but I want each image my client sees to be fabulous.