Question about Tag along at Wedding

[SupaDave03]

I have a friend who has a duaghter who is taking classes at San Jac and learning about photography and is really interested. I was going to invite her to a wedding we have coming up to tag along and was wondering whats the norm as far as should I pay her or should I let her keep what ever images she captures for her own portfolio with our copyright logo or what? Just curious as to what others have done in this position.

Thanks,
D.Ramirez

[bryanlindsey]

1. Is there a benefit to you?

A) Yes, the tagalong will be holding lights or I will be using their images to present to the client. If so, there needs to be some compensation - typically either cash OR the usage of images in their portfolio.

B) No, I will do everything exactly as if I was on my own. If so, no compensation necessary since there is no benefit to you.

FWIW :)

[tomdrink]

There is a thread on here about the differences between a tagalong, and an assistant. I tried to search, but couldn't find it.
I think many people are confused on the subject.
My take on the subject (not that I am an expert on anythig!):

Tagalong - Someone who you allow to come along on a shoot, to let them also shoot. To gain practice, and to add to their portfolio.

Assistant - Someone who is there to be the main photographers assistant. You are there to do whatever the photographer asks: hold lights/reflectors, setup/takedown equipment, carry bags, etc. You are essentially "employed" by the photographer for session. It can be a learning experience, but not meant to be a shooting experience.

Tagalong/Assistant - This is the gray area. Some photographers, in my opinion, are saying they want a tagalong, but also someone to "assist". In other words, when you're not "working" for the photographer, you are free to shhot on your own. It should be made clear, when asking for tagalong/assistants, what is expected, and what the assistant portion of the shoot will be compensated. Be it experience, portfolio building, or cash.

I have assisted several D/FW photographers in the last year. I was paid for all but one, but I knew that going in. It was a short session, and the shooter was some famous "banned guy" !!

I have also done two tagalongs, where I knew beforehand, that it was just for experience (no monetary compensation) for two other well known photographers (Don Barnes/Leslie Spurlock).

I have learned a great deal from both types of experience, and appreciate all the opportunities.
But I prefer the paying assistant jobs!

Just my take on the situation!

TomD

[SupaDave03]

Thanks alot that cleared up some questions I had much appreciated

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by bryanlindsey

1. Is there a benefit to you?

A) Yes, the tagalong will be holding lights or I will be using their images to present to the client. If so, there needs to be some compensation - typically either cash OR the usage of images in their portfolio.

B) No, I will do everything exactly as if I was on my own. If so, no compensation necessary since there is no benefit to you.

FWIW :)

While it repulses me when I see all the threads with "tag a long needed", I am not of the belief that if a tag a long is holding a light or reflector for a bit that they are automatically an "assistant", and should be paid.

In my opinion, a tag a long is getting a considerable amount of pay because they are "learning" the business of photography while on location, etc. They are learning how an experienced photographer interacts with clients, how he or she may shoot, and how they may utilize lighting and other equipment. The time a photographer may spend with a tag a long is not free... knowledge and experience carries significant value, so there is an expectation that there is some assistance in recognition of that value.

With that said, there is a very distinct difference from me having a tag a long haul around a Vagabond, or hold a reflector, and the duties of an assistant.
Assitants are experienced with lighting and photography in general. This is a paid position as there is an expectation that the assistant understands lighting, the gear that I shoot with, the way I work around clients, and he or she has a personality & demeanor that compliments mine. A good assistant knows what you will be doing before you say anything about it. They can set up your lighting for a specific shoot, and help to make a shoot successful.

No offense but why would I want to invite people to come shoot with me for no reason? If someone is taking pictures, they are a photographer and 2nd shooter, and should be paid as such. It seems to me many folks like to have a warm body with camera in hand so they look like they are fulfilling the "two shooters" aspect to the client. A tag a long should be there to learn the business, and yes that sometimes means shooting a few shots to be critiqued... but not to spend the day photographing a wedding.


Just my opinion on the subject.

W

[J Eddington]

No matter what you do just make sure that they understand what their role is and you will be fine. If you allow them to take photos have them sign an agreement about what they can and cannot do with the photos. Just make everything clear upfront.

[TxTowman]

I realize I am inexperienced in this business. However, I feel my time is valuable. I would love to be a tag along but if I will be "required" to perform any duties other than watch or do minimal duties I would expect to get paid. In addition if I am a "paid employee" there will not be any question about who owns the photos.

Also, I think a seasoned pro would be glad to share the knowledge, as I am thinking they had some help along the way.

JMHO

Sid

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by TxTowman

I realize I am inexperienced in this business. However, I feel my time is valuable. I would love to be a tag along but if I will be "required" to perform any duties other than watch or do minimal duties I would expect to get paid. In addition if I am a "paid employee" there will not be any question about who owns the photos.

Also, I think a seasoned pro would be glad to share the knowledge, as I am thinking they had some help along the way.

JMHO

Sid

Yeah, I said the same thing to my professor. I said I would love to come to class, but if I am "required" to do any work... your going to have to pay me!
As far as help along the way, I had a ton... but I worked my rear end off learning and working for someone else as a pee on and paid my dues till I realized I wanted to do this on my own, then shot part time... then on to full time.

I do not see anything wrong with tagging along, but I do think it is mis used. If you do not yet have the skill set, and want to learn, I am more than willing to help someone, but I am not going to invite everyone who wants "experience" to come along and shoot some images for their portfolio, learn what they want, grab a free meal, and go about their business. As I originally posted, I do not feel that it is not too much to ask that someone hold a reflector, or a light, etc while I am sharing what I know with them. If I want images, I will hire a shooter. If I want an assistant, I will hire one.

I must be much more humble because I would carry gear, go get coffee, cook dinner, hold reflectors, lights, or an umbrella over the photographers head on a hot day if I could assist some of the photogs I admire, and would want to learn from. Their time, experience, and knowledge is priceless to me, and they are allowing me "inside" their business workings to learn what and how they REALLY do things... not a workshop, DVD, or book, but the real deal with real clients. I worked really hard to get where I am... why should it be my responsibility to make it any easier for everyone else?

Now I will use the rest of this message to apologize to the OP for hijacking this thread, and my rant. It was not directed at the OP so I apologize for posting up like this.

W

[kayumangi]

I don't think you were OT Warren, as you raised a couple of valid points and most folks could use the detailed explanation.

And I completely agree with your sentiment. I often cringe whenever I see a Tag-Along thread with minimum requirements, honestly why would someone openly request for a Tag-Along, if they need assistance on lighting or holding a reflector then they should hire an assistant.

It should be the ones who want to learn who should be actively posting and asking for tagging-along opportunities like what David's friend did for his daughter.

And just to chime in, David, your time and your expertise (plus some donuts or soda) is more than enough compensation for the Tag-Along. The moment you set expectations from the Tag-Along that will affect your delivery to the Client, then it becomes a work for hire. Obviously, your daughter's friend should be mature enough to pickup where you need assistance without you explicitly stating/hinting so.

[Tom]

I've used a tagalong for exactly one shoot - bridals. I'm not sure if she got much out of it. I wanted another set of eyes because you can't always see things in camera - especially when you are using a longer lens to compress the subject.

The only way I would consider a tagalong for a wedding is if that person was someone who had been learning under me or was someone like my sister and they wanted to get experience.

A tagalong represents some major problems:
My client now has one more mouth to feed and gets no benefit
I have one more person I have to look out for.
I have one more person I have representing me with their looks and actions.
I have one more person that could be in my way or could have their flash go off at an inconvenient time.
I have someone that is attending in order to take wedding I have booked, take pictures of it to put in their portfolio to represent as their own work.

The only way I would consider a tagalong would be if I ran some type of workshop where the photographer could then shoot a wedding with me and they would be paying me for that opportunity.

If you want to learn about the business, buy me a beer and cheese fries and ask me nicely. Beer and cheese fries go a long way with me. If you want one on one instruction, try to find a workshop or propose 1-on-1 instruction of your own.

What benefits does the primary photographer get out of a tagalong? The feel good of being nice and helping out a new photographer?

Ultimately, I get no benefit and incur a lot of burden by brining a tagalong, which is why I choose not to. Weddings can be stressful enough without dealing with someone that wants to get their ears wet.

However, I feel my time is valuable. I would love to be a tag along but if I will be "required" to perform any duties other than watch or do minimal duties I would expect to get paid.

Is your time more valuable than the experience of learning from a seasoned pro that booked the wedding?

Also, I think a seasoned pro would be glad to share the knowledge, as I am thinking they had some help along the way.

Depends on the situation. Following me at a wedding and chatting over drinks are two entirely different things. Send a PM to a pro, and more than likely you will get a response. I know a couple pros on here did a lot for me over the years, and I pay that back by answering questions for the newbies now.


I'm not winning any friends with that post, but sue me. I'm recovering from a car accident, so I am probably more grumpy than normal.

[S-Man]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

...Weddings can be stressful enough without dealing with someone that wants to get their ears wet....

Not to be a stickler, and it could be the pain meds that you may or may not be on, but, isn't it "get your FEET wet"?
Being "Wet behind the ears" indicates a severe degree of amateurism. Although ears being entirely wet could indicate a measure of professionalism...

[Tom]

In either event, I don't want to baby sit them!

[bryanlindsey]

Originally Posted by TxTowman

I realize I am inexperienced in this business. However, I feel my time is valuable. I would love to be a tag along but if I will be "required" to perform any duties other than watch or do minimal duties I would expect to get paid. In addition if I am a "paid employee" there will not be any question about who owns the photos.

Also, I think a seasoned pro would be glad to share the knowledge, as I am thinking they had some help along the way.

JMHO

Sid

You are in for a rude awakening, IMHO.

I shot so much for free in my first year, I calculated my total earnings to be about $2/hr. Brides need to see a portfolio before they book, and a lot of times the only way to get that portfolio is to shoot for free.

[clayhilda55]

I think no need to pay her since you will be her mentor in that case, she should pay you actually. Just cultivate her on the event, hold lights and other materials for you as you shoot.

[TxTowman]

I think as a tag along I would not be shooting.

I would be in a corner out of the way.

I would not expect to be fed.

I would help if needed, be available and gung ho in an emergency.

Dressed and groomed appropriately.

And to me these would be a given!

Once again JMHO.