Legal/Ethical question

[TheRandomPhotographer]

I work with a part time photographer that told me a little story:

• Went to a rodeo with his son
• took his d700, SB800, 70-200 2.8, 35mm 1.4
• got lotsa pics of his son with animals, riding the donkeys, with the rodeo

clowns, and with the cowboys

He also shot some of the rodeo itself. about half way through the bull riding he was pulled from the stands and escorted to the event managment where they asked to see his photos. He reluctantly showed them and they demanded he delete all of them(his total frames for that day were ~700). Fearing legal recourse and under much duress he deleted them.

/end story :)

Now is that legal for an event to force you to delete the photos even if you inform them of non-commercial use. I would refuse to even show them let alone delete my shots.

Has anyone ever encountered a situation like this before? What did you do? As a patron to the event do we have a right to photograph even if they dont explicitly say(print of verbal) you cant?

P.S. he used a jpeg recovery tool to get all of his shots back

P.P.S. until i get a positive response i will not be posting my shots from this Saturday at the Pasadena Rodeo

[Some Idiot]

Here is some good info

Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page

[Kalrog]

Nobody can force you to delete the photos. This includes the police. They can make it a condition of you remaining - or you will be asked/forced to leave (since this is private property). But the photos are legal to take and own. You would get into a more grey area based on what you wanted to do with the pictures if you are considering commercial applications. But for personal use you are completely okay.

[ngoduyviet]

They would need to get subpoena to get me to even show them the photos the way they treated him. They can ask him to leave as it is their private property, but that's about it.

Edit: I was in somewhat the same situation. I was shooting a couple in front of this nice building. Two security guards stopped me and accused me of taking pictures of their building in the background, which was forbidden according to their policy (this building is private property and not a government building). They asked me to stay and showed them the pictures after they called their manager. I laughed and told them that they'd need a court order for that and walked away.

[ka5txl]

I went to the website for the Pasadena Rodeo and could not find any mention of what the rules are for photography. What you need to do is find out from the rodeo folks in advance what the rules are. Here is an example from Resitol Arena where the Mesquite Rodeo operates

FAQS

"Can I bring my camera into Resistol Arena? Guests can bring in their own cameras, digital cameras and camcorders."

[TheRandomPhotographer]

Originally Posted by ngoduyviet

They would need to get subpoena to get me to even show them the photos the way they treated him. They can ask him to leave as it is their private property, but that's about it.

Edit: I was in somewhat the same situation. I was shooting a couple in front of this nice building. Two security guards stopped me and accused me of taking pictures of their building in the background, which was forbidden according to their policy (this building is private property and not a government building). They asked me to stay and showed them the pictures after they called their manager. I laughed and told them that they'd need a court order for that and walked away.

I just got off the phone witha friend thats a combat photographer in the Air Force and he has had numerous encounters with security, managers, owners, and even police. He carries documents that were given to him during tech school and they have all the laws that pertain to photography in the US. not once was anyone able to force him to turn over his work

[Tom]

Now use Lexar's disc recovery and get all the files back. Then promote the hell out of his pictures.

[kayumangi]

And next time you can bring something like this

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

[Kalrog]

Originally Posted by ngoduyviet

Two security guards stopped me and accused me of taking pictures of their building in the background, which was forbidden according to their policy (this building is private property and not a government building).

If it is visible from the public sidewalk, you can take a picture of it. The security guards cannot legally enforce that policy (if that is even the real policy).

[ScottBH]

I recently went to the World Equestrian Games in Kentucky (big, big event in the horse world) and the only "rule" they had was "no professional gear." After we asked, they considered professional gear any lens over 6 inches..

Its a public event, there should be nothing restricting pictures unless its posted.

Now a days, DSLR's are so common, everyone has one. There is no way he should have been singled out.

[TheRandomPhotographer]

Originally Posted by Kalrog

If it is visible from the public sidewalk, you can take a picture of it. The security guards cannot legally enforce that policy (if that is even the real policy).

From what i understand "Company Policy" can not be enforced to non-employees on public property. now with that said, Downtown houston has some sidewalks that are private property and they explicitly say that on the ground stamped on placards.

[groovyone]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

Now use Lexar's disc recovery and get all the files back. Then promote the hell out of his pictures.

That was my thought too!

[SCone]

I'd use my cell phone to call my lawyer, that I have on speed-dial, and learn the answer on the spot.

[Mr KWA]

[QUOTE=TheRandomPhotographer;1194760]I work with a part time photographer that told me a little story:
[LIST][*]Went to a rodeo with his son[*]took his d700, SB800, 70-200 2.8, 35mm 1.4[*]got lotsa pics of his son with animals, riding the donkeys, with the rodeo

Now is that legal for an event to force you to delete the photos even if you inform them of non-commercial use. I would refuse to even show them let alone delete my shots.

No that is not legal no matter if it was for commercial usage or not!!

This is simple; Post the photos all day long. You are the copyright owner of them. So if you are interested in posting images of your own child or family member you can do that without any issues from the facility. The ONLY person that can give you any legal action is the person in your photos. Your child or family member will not do that.

Now as for them demanding you delete the images that is a violation of your rights. If it had been a commercial shoot for contract then it would have been a Tort violation. I would have called me an official officer over and had them sited for being stupid. LOL

To make a long drawn out legal discussion brief you can post your images for usage not benefitted for profit.

It can get complicated at least.

Just my two cents based on old conversations with legal friends. LOL

[Mr KWA]

Originally Posted by SCone

I'd use my cell phone to call my lawyer, that I have on speed-dial, and learn the answer on the spot.

Now this is something I pride myself on having also. LOL