RANT / Question

[Jusselin]

Ok, I am pretty bothered because a woman told us today that we are great but "PRICEY" that what we quoted her on her bridal and engagement session is what they wanted to spend on everything including pics. (We quoted her $500 for a bridal AND engagement) i dont find that pricey at all, infact some would charge only that for one session alone, but since we are just starting out and still building our portfolio, we dont charge as much. The part she didnt like is that she would have to purchase pictures after paying $500 for the photo sessions....Thats my rant, here is my question


How do you guys/gals run your business? Do you charge for the session and pics as well? Do you charge fr the session and include pics? Or do you shoot for free as long as they commit to purchasig a certain amount of photos?

Please chime in on this guys, i need to hear some feedback. Also what do you charge for a bridal adn what do you charge for an Engagement session, and what does that include.

[Rson]

Move on and don't look back, sounds like a nightmare customer.

[Tom]

They would have to buy prints/files after, but I include a single print with each session.

They get the files if they book me for a wedding, but they don't get the files until the entire wedding is finished.

[texkam]

Tons of info on this subject exists here. Just do a little diggin'. : )

If she wants great she needs to pay for it. Do a great job for someone who is willing to pay for it.

Figure out how much you need to charge to run a full-time photography business successfully and charge it. If you can't get clients you can't be a full-time photographer then. Build your portfolio with pro-bono work.

[Jusselin]

It does sound like a nightmare customer, i agree,but i want to know if we really seem outrageous...To be honest our only session fee was $300 persession i dont care if you needed head shots or an entire engagement session...but people complained and we lost business, so we developed a "pricing chart"

1. Mini session - 5 -10 images $100

2. Main session - 10-15 images $200

3. Super Session - 15-25+ images $300 (if we get more than 25 we dont charge extra just seems like a good opportunity to sell more imaes)

we broke it down like this for 2 reasons # 1 so people wouldnt complain about pricing, if they wanted it cheap thats fine buy the mini session an then the images (just did a family package with a mini session and a $150 photo package - came out great. We worked less than an hour to get 10 images and then made some money on the photo package as well)

#2 Not every one needs 30 images in a session, some just need a few and dont have a ton of money to spend.


I dont know am I doing something wrong?

here is a copy of our pricing chart.... I honestly feel like our pricing is VERY low, and i HATE offering a CD at all but its actually requested a lot....thinking about taking it off the pricing chart or bumping up the price of it.


we explain to the clients that there is a session fee, and after wards they can pick a photo package to mix match any photos they want to fill the order....if they want more photos then they can order individuals as well.

[Jusselin]

Originally Posted by texkam

Tons of info on this subject exists here. Just do a little diggin'. : )

If she wants great she needs to pay for it. Do a great job for someone who is willing to pay for it.

Figure out how much you need to charge to run a full-time photography business successfully and charge it. If you can't get clients you can't be a full-time photographer then. Build your portfolio with pro-bono work.

understood

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

They would have to buy prints/files after, but I include a single print with each session.

They get the files if they book me for a wedding, but they don't get the files until the entire wedding is finished.

by single you mean only one from the ENTIRE session right? not single of each?

can you elaborate on the second part...thanks Thomas

[mrsrice22]

WOW, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes, your pricing is really low compared to what the current market is, but I'm not one to jump on anyone for their pricing structure. :)

I do have a question for you, Jusselin, in regards to your session pricing. Do you assess this amount AFTER the session when you decide how many final images came from the session? Or do you charge an upfront cost? I'm just a bit confused on your pricing sheet as to how a client would know what they're supposed to pay for their session fee.

What if there's only 10 images, is it $100 or $200 (just nitpicking on that one, because that's something as a consumer that I would notice and ask)...

As far as your question, here is my experience in a somewhat similar...experience.

I was approached by my cousin who was starting his catering business to shoot a wedding for a friend of his that he was going to cater the wedding. After talking to her on the phone, I quoted her $300 JUST for my time and one other photographer and it did not include ANY prints or products at all but because it would have been our first wedding, we would discount the prints, albums, etc (hardly mark it up, but I didn't want to give away what our cost would be through WHCC). She agreed and said that's reasonable, they were having a small wedding, maybe 5 hours or so total with the ceremony and reception (which was to take place at their apt club house and had maybe 40 people total including the wedding part). She then came back and that's when it went down hill fast. She wanted digital files, I told her we would sell her a digital package for a couple hundred, I can't remember exactly but it might have been an additional 200 or so. she then wanted prints included, then albums, then an online gallery and on and on and on... and then she said something along the lines of "if you're just starting out then you could use it for your portfolio.." aaaaaah crash and buuurrrrn! PASS! I gave her some sort of a response that while it would be our first wedding, the second photographer that I enlisted has years of experience behind him and multiple weddings and what we were basically charging is what we would charge for a regular portrait session (times 2 photogs, 150 each, but to cover up to 6 hours) she then responded that she would have her sister take the pictures, lol, thank gawd because I was starting to sweat on how to get out of that. And then of course my cousin called and said I should just do it for free because the never having shot a wedding and it was a friend of his, I reminded him that when he approached me on it I told him I would not do it for free but that I could offer her a significant discount on the products.

So, long story short, if you can run do it! If they start out complaining and trying to talk you down, you'll likely run into it happening through out the entire process, even if you disclose everything up front.

*I am not a wedding photographer and the experience I posted was my first and only almost wedding experience, so maybe the bridezillas chill out later, I don't know. All I know is when people/friends/family asked me since then I decline. :)

[Jusselin]

Originally Posted by mrsrice22

WOW, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes, your pricing is really low compared to what the current market is, but I'm not one to jump on anyone for their pricing structure. :)

Like i said we are still building our portfolio and have only been in this less than 2 years...I charge what i feel we are worth, when i produce images like some of my idols here i will feel more comfortable with raising my prices


I do have a question for you, Jusselin, in regards to your session pricing. Do you assess this amount AFTER the session when you decide how many final images came from the session? Or do you charge an upfront cost? I'm just a bit confused on your pricing sheet as to how a client would know what they're supposed to pay for their session fee. What if there's only 10 images, is it $100 or $200 (just nitpicking on that one, because that's something as a consumer that I would notice and ask)...


We charge upfront, Its explains its self pretty well. If we charged for 25+ images, then why would we only come up with 10 images??? Your qestion doesnt make sense...we produce what we charge for. If they pay for a mini session we stop at ten and give them a full ten images...i never want to short change a client even on a mini session, if they pay fora main session we hit the high number image, if they pay for the super session we aim for about 30 images, we can get the images we charge for because when we pull the trigger on our Canons we know what it will produce...




As far as your question, here is my experience in a somewhat similar...experience.

I was approached by my cousin who was starting his catering business to shoot a wedding for a friend of his that he was going to cater the wedding. After talking to her on the phone, I quoted her $300 JUST for my time and one other photographer and it did not include ANY prints or products at all but because it would have been our first wedding, we would discount the prints, albums, etc (hardly mark it up, but I didn't want to give away what our cost would be through WHCC). She agreed and said that's reasonable, they were having a small wedding, maybe 5 hours or so total with the ceremony and reception (which was to take place at their apt club house and had maybe 40 people total including the wedding part). She then came back and that's when it went down hill fast. She wanted digital files, I told her we would sell her a digital package for a couple hundred, I can't remember exactly but it might have been an additional 200 or so. she then wanted prints included, then albums, then an online gallery and on and on and on... and then she said something along the lines of "if you're just starting out then you could use it for your portfolio.." aaaaaah crash and buuurrrrn! PASS! I gave her some sort of a response that while it would be our first wedding, the second photographer that I enlisted has years of experience behind him and multiple weddings and what we were basically charging is what we would charge for a regular portrait session (times 2 photogs, 150 each, but to cover up to 6 hours) she then responded that she would have her sister take the pictures, lol, thank gawd because I was starting to sweat on how to get out of that. And then of course my cousin called and said I should just do it for free because the never having shot a wedding and it was a friend of his, I reminded him that when he approached me on it I told him I would not do it for free but that I could offer her a significant discount on the products.

So, long story short, if you can run do it! If they start out complaining and trying to talk you down, you'll likely run into it happening through out the entire process, even if you disclose everything up front.

*I am not a wedding photographer and the experience I posted was my first and only almost wedding experience, so maybe the bridezillas chill out later, I don't know. All I know is when people/friends/family asked me since then I decline. :)

I commented on most everything in red above, as for the last part of your post, i totally undrstand what you are saying we have actually had THIS customer already. My partner and I do NOT do weddings because we simply do NOT have the experience....but out door portrait work is something we love and we are good at it. Although we are new, i dont feel we are bad photographers...we just dont have the portfolio to back up the practice we have. We charge what we do basically to build up our portfolio and help provide some income. We are hoping with in he next 6 months to a year that we can increase our prices as well as have a few portfolios printed out to show clients during preflights.

[mrsrice22]

I think I was getting caught up on wording, like with the mini session (to me) is charged/priced by time, not images. So for example, instead of a session lasting up to one or two hours (the standard or average rate of time), a mini session would only be like 30-45 minutes. But I see now what you're doing when you're listing pricing based on images. Thanks for clarifying!

Kristina

[Jusselin]

Originally Posted by mrsrice22

I think I was getting caught up on wording, like with the mini session (to me) is charged/priced by time, not images. So for example, instead of a session lasting up to one or two hours (the standard or average rate of time), a mini session would only be like 30-45 minutes. But I see now what you're doing when you're listing pricing based on images. Thanks for clarifying!

Kristina

Nothing listed has/had a time limit next to it, If i can get a killer 10 images in 30 minutes (we have 2 photogs on scene) then so be it. However if t takes me an hour or even two then so be it. But since I know what i am looking for when i push the shutter button I cant see my self taking any more tha an hour for a mini session....sorry for the confusion

But back to the topic, how are you guys pricing your sessions....does it include pictures and if not how are you selling your images...also i see some photogs offering an online gallery that the client can order from, is this smug mug?


I really do appreciate your comments guys/gals i have learned A LOT of what i know right here on this forum....as some of you have seen i have improved in my photography but only due to my thick skin and hanging around here for CC so i really do appreciate the help i get here...I am ready to improve. I just want to be more professional about things, and that is why i ask the professionals.

[David Whatley]

Jusselin, is your pricing for example, I want a mini session for 100.00 then I pick a print package?
I'm confused on your price sheet also.
FYI, I charge 150.00 in studio and 200.00 for on location, and that comes with a 50.00 print credit.
Prints are all priced seperate.
So, in your customer request, lets assume we did the engagement on location=$200.00
Bridal in studio-$150.00
Total $350.00 and that would include 100.00 total in print credits.

[Jake]

I include a print credit with my session fee. I think it gives the client a little piece of mind to include something.

[Tom]

Jusselin, your pricing is really confusing, and doesn't make a ton of sense like David has said.

Yes, I include a single print (no files) with each session.

If you book me for just an engagement session, you get that single print, no files. If you book me for your wedding, you get all the files when they are ready - 1-2 months after the wedding. Before that, you buy prints.

[Redneck]

Jusselin, I think your pricing chart might be confusing to potential customers. It is optically not very appealing and not clear. Of course someone can figure out how much a session is and how much you charge for print packages but most customers are very lazy when it comes to reading, adding and thinking.
I know, it is very hard to find a good and clear way to give your customers transparency in pricing, I'm open for suggestions as well on this matter.

[HeatherLou]

Jusslin, here is a link to my pricing. SmugShots - Heather Nix Photography-Brownwood, Early, Abilene, Fort Worth, Dallas Texas Password is Pixel. I just revamped it for 2011 and there are a couple things that might help you out. Typically, most people buy in the middle, so I made my middle collections what I wanted my sales average to be. Also, put your higher priced collections first. It "shocks" them, for lack of a better word, and they think, "well if her highest collection is 2100$ then 900$ is a really good deal". I don't ever expect anyone to buy those top 3 collections.

For my wedding pricing, same things still apply. I want a $2000 sales average on my weddings, but since I don't shoot many, (I only want to shoot about 6 this year) I put my two middle collections pretty close to that. Guess what, I have booked 3 of my 6 weddings for the year and all have done that 2500$ collection!

Don't price yourself at what YOU could afford. If your a penny pincher like I am, that will be really dangerous. I have really struggled with that, and it has taken me 4 years to get my pricing to a fairly decent level. The people I book now are booking me for my vision, not for the cheapest deal they can get. It takes a while to get there, but you can do it!