Industrial Photography Question

[curtis Cunningham]

I've been contacted by the Technical Services Manager of a local company that provides drilling fluids to mining and exploration companies. He's interested in hiring me to do some remote, on-location photography and in researching this type of industrial photography I realized at this point I'm leaning towards charging a flat hourly rate (which would include all images).

To get to the location would require about a 5-hour drive with an hour or so helicopter ride at the end. So to complete the job would likely be a 2-day affair for me including travel to and from my home as well as the photography time.

QUESTION: If you were in this situation, would you charge the same rate regardless of whether you'd be traveling to/from the location, or actively photographing it? The manager I spoke with did say they'd cover my expenses (mainly a hotel for the one overnight stay required).

Thanks in advance for your time, and for any help you may be able to provide.

[Tom]

I'd probably give them a day rate or a flat rate for the job. You should be charging for all time, including travel.

It doesn't matter if the shoot took 1 hour to complete if it took 2 days to get there and 2 days to get back. That's 4 days out of your schedule that you can't otherwise bill another client or spend with your family.

[prncfarquad]

I shoot some construction photography for a local company and I charge by the hour +mileage+travel (hotel/meals) if required. I do also charge an hourly rate for post production which includes web sized images.

[park]

Doesn't anyone charge either a capture fee or post processing fee? What about usage fees? In my experience you have to have some way of charging for additional photos or they will ask for all the photos in the world unless it is costing them something additional.

[WarrenG]

I do not charge the same rate for travel as I do for completing the actual shoot, as travel does not require any technical or creative skill, although it does require minimum reimbursement for time that could not be spent working on another assignment.

This model seems to work for me. I hate getting into an hourly situation if it can be avoided, especially if your travelling.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by park

Doesn't anyone charge either a capture fee or post processing fee? What about usage fees? In my experience you have to have some way of charging for additional photos or they will ask for all the photos in the world unless it is costing them something additional.

In my experience (which is not nearly as great as some of the others here), usage fee's seem to be going by the wayside these days...

I do charge for production and editing work if the client's team will not be doing that aspect of the assignment though.

[park]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

In my experience (which is not nearly as great as some of the others here), usage fee's seem to be going by the wayside these days...

I do charge for production and editing work if the client's team will not be doing that aspect of the assignment though.

So you would charge the same for a shot of a cup of coffee for a local coffee shop to be used strictly in their store on displays and menus as for the same shot for Starbucks to be used worldwide on all advertising materials if they took the same amount of time and the expenses were equal?

[surlynkid]

when i pay repair technicians to come to my plant, i have to pay the same rate for travel time as i do for their work time. time is time as thomas said. now if they are local, it is included. if i am brining them in from minnesota, i pay their travel time and expenses. that is typical in the industry. if you are not charging it, you are short changing yourself. it also depends on how booked you are as to how far you want to push it. if you can fill the slots with local work, charge full price for travel. if you were not doing anything anyway, you can charge less, but you will set a precedent that will be hard to undo later when you do become booked.

[BigEasy]

Curtis, I have done many of these type of shoots... and they a a lot of work. In addition to the travel, in my case, it consists of several days in the field climbing around ships or industrial areas.. much of the time in the heat, cold or rain. Its not a wedding or portraiture shoot for sure!!

Because most of my clients use these photos for marketing, web, print, annual reports, etc.. I charge them a “project fee” this includes full copyright usage to all photos I deliver. I deliver approximately 100=200 photos on disk. I retain all usage and copyright ( for my use), but they get the files to do whatever they need with them.

I charge by the job.. in addition to FULL travel, hotel, transportation, and extras (like a helicopter), I charge $1200.00 to $1600.00 US per day with a 3-4 day minimum. I calculate the days charged as 2 days shooting + 1 day Post Processing.

It is a great way to see neat stuff and travel, but it is a lot of work. The upside is 99% of my jobs come from former shoots. So once you get linked to an industry.. more jobs will follow.

A few examples at: Gene Inman Photography | Heavy Lift & Transport

[curtis Cunningham]

Originally Posted by BigEasy

I charge them a “project fee” this includes full copyright usage to all photos I deliver. I deliver approximately 100=200 photos on disk. I retain all usage and copyright ( for my use), but they get the files to do whatever they need with them.

This is what I'm going to be doing. Thanks for the confirmation.

Originally Posted by BigEasy

I charge by the job.. in addition to FULL travel, hotel, transportation, and extras (like a helicopter), I charge $1200.00 to $1600.00 US per day with a 3-4 day minimum. I calculate the days charged as 2 days shooting + 1 day Post Processing.

I haven't finalized my pricing yet, but I had not considered post processing time. I will now. Thanks for the reminder. What I'm waiting on now is for the potential client to get back to me with an idea of how he would use the images. Once I have that, then I'll be able to finalize a quote for him.

Originally Posted by BigEasy

It is a great way to see neat stuff and travel, but it is a lot of work. The upside is 99% of my jobs come from former shoots. So once you get linked to an industry.. more jobs will follow.

The mining industry is HUGE up here in northern British Columbia. There are all sorts of companies that are involved to some degree or another. So if this job works out, I'll have good material to present to them in some form or another when going out and looking for more work.

Thanks for your insight.

Great photos of the Heavy Lift by the way. That beast must have weighed something tremendous!

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by park

So you would charge the same for a shot of a cup of coffee for a local coffee shop to be used strictly in their store on displays and menus as for the same shot for Starbucks to be used worldwide on all advertising materials if they took the same amount of time and the expenses were equal?

I have no intention of high-jacking the OP's thread..... but yes. The truth is I don't always know what the final usage will be for an image I take. I usually know it will be used in marketing let's say, but not that it may be used in everything the company prints. My experience is that the Ad Agencies and Corp Marketing people are loathe to discuss usage and or space rates, especially given the number of stock images that are readily available. The direction I am typical given is to assume that the images will be used world wide and to include that in my price, but I also retain the copyright to the images. If it is a work for hire situation than the price would be completely different.

All I am saying is that there is a trend in the market place, and most agencies do not want to negotiate usage, that does not mean I like or agree with that... it just means I have to deal with it.

[BigEasy]

Originally Posted by curtis Cunningham

Great photos of the Heavy Lift by the way. That beast must have weighed something tremendous!

Thanks.. yea that big one attached was about 500 tons. Good luck with your gig! If you need a 2nd shooter, I'd love to do some Mining stuff - LOL

[reader0428]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

All I am saying is that there is a trend in the market place, and most agencies do not want to negotiate usage, that does not mean I like or agree with that... it just means I have to deal with it.

This is interesting. When I worked for an ad agency (which admittedly was 9 years ago), ALL of the photographers were charging usage fees based on the media the photo would be used in as well as a set length of time the image could be used (I think we negotiated three years on the campaign I worked for). By moving to a day rate only model and giving basically unlimited usage, it sounds like the photographer is getting screwed, as usage fees alone could be several thousand dollars per image. It makes sense, if your photo will be used in a worldwide advertising campaign that stands to make the company millions and millions of dollars, I'd say that image is more valuable (and should cost more) than an image going in [I]Texas Rancher[I] with a circulation of 15,000. But that's just my opinion. Those who are signing the contracts may well have a different opinion. :)

[park]

Originally Posted by reader0428

This is interesting. When I worked for an ad agency (which admittedly was 9 years ago), ALL of the photographers were charging usage fees based on the media the photo would be used in as well as a set length of time the image could be used (I think we negotiated three years on the campaign I worked for). By moving to a day rate only model and giving basically unlimited usage, it sounds like the photographer is getting screwed, as usage fees alone could be several thousand dollars per image. It makes sense, if your photo will be used in a worldwide advertising campaign that stands to make the company millions and millions of dollars, I'd say that image is more valuable (and should cost more) than an image going in [I]Texas Rancher[I] with a circulation of 15,000. But that's just my opinion. Those who are signing the contracts may well have a different opinion. :)

Every job I do has licensing involved in the price. I may give unlimited usage on occasion but it is going to be at a far higher price than some local, one year, limited media use.

Of course you are going to hear that companies do not want to deal with usage when there are so many photographers willing to give it up for nothing. It is a photographer's job to understand licensing and how to explain and sell it to these clients, many of whom know darn well all about it but have nothing to lose by asking to get it all free.

There are certainly areas that usage is still the norm - architectural work and ad work being two of them.

Where I find usage most underutilized is with wedding/portrait photographers who do some commercial/architectural jobs on the side. They really need to learn to use separate pricing models.

[WarrenG]

Park, are you directing your comments to me?

I think you might be lumping me in with someone else, but you know nothing about me, nor my pricing structure so kindly stop implying of how I need to negotiate rights, learn how to understand them, and quit giving them away.

I never said that I do not negotiate rights, I said that it appears to be a trend to have it inclusive, and before you make a public statement of how "photographers give it away" why don't you do your homework and ask first?

One last thought, if you want to go back and forth on this, why high jack the OP's thread?