Pricing: A family group of 13? 7 adults and 6 kids.

[cvalene]

I am 19 and currently attending the Art Institute of Dallas and but as of now more of a self-taught photographer. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not completely in the dark when it comes to making a professional looking image. I'm not just a photography student.

So, I looked at ranges of prices for a avg. family portrait and saw the min was $200, avg. was $370 and max. was $530. Now being newer to photography than my local businesses, I was not comfortable charging $370 for the session alone. I started at $200 for the session, and $5 for each person after 5 people. When I added up what I was needing to rent it equaled $115 + tax.

So:
$200 - session (on location)
$40 - each additional person. (8)
$115 + tax - equipment fees. (I have zero lighting equipment)
= roughly $350 (not including 2nd invoice for retouch and prints)

Considering I have done so much for this shoot already, I feel that this is a fair price. I know, I'm a "student", but I am very serious when it comes to getting a great image so I feel that argument is invalid. I don't believe I have the mentality of a student, although I'm learning... I surely believe most photogs. are learning everyday. (correct me if I'm wrong)

So, this rant is ending with this question:

Is this an unfair price? I'm making $240 for the session. For 13 people(Children aged from 7months to 8 years). For 6 requested arrangements/shoots. (full family, siblings, grandchildren, then the 3 different family shoots)

It's not like I'm not willing to negotiate, I am grateful for this opportunity. Just wondering if I started too high, although I believe that's best for a negotiation.

Sorry for any grammatical errors, I haven't had the time to get my glasses on yet... ha ha.

Thanks for reading,
Cherese

[WarrenG]

Cherese,

Everyone's business model is different. My overhead is different from yours, and so on. With that said, here is some food for thought, but I hope that you are operating a legal photography business?

With all that said, $240.00 minus the time to go down and rent the equipment, and then return it when your done, then you have the actual time you will be shooting with the clients, gas and time driving to the shoot, initial culling and exposure / saturation adjustments to the images, time to present them to the client and upsell (according to your statement above you plan on upselling the processing, etc), and the time to invoice the client.

That is a lot for $240.00, but it may be ok for you. Typically, with a shoot like this, I anticipate about $1k in print sales, but then I am confident in the images I will create for them.

Do they know you are a student? Also, you say your serious on getting high quality images. If so, you may pitch them on session cost of say $125.00 which covers the rental equipment.... To make this sales tactic work you have to be able to create some great photos, and charge them accordingly for them. I would not add anything in for the retouch, just include it. Start with the smallest size of say 11x14 @ $125.00 - $150.00 each, and go up from there. Do not even offer 4x6 through 8x10 unless they order a minimum of $700.00 or whatever you want to set it at it.

Again, the trick here is you are selling them on the concept that you are so confident in your ability, that you will do the shoot at cost because you know how great the images will be. In return, you expect to sell the images at professional rates...and you can even mention that you will "make up" the session fee in the sale of the prints so that your client "has nothing to lose". Confidence sells...as do great images. There is no reason why you should not make at least $750-$1200.00 from a session like this.

Good Luck.

[cvalene]

Wow. That response was amazing. Thank you so much.

And as for a legal business, I not even close to making enough money with my photography for any legal issues.(edit: turns out I know nothing)

$240 is good for me, I was nervous about that at first but I looked at all of the services I have already provided and the time I have given. I will definitely keep this pricing range in mind when doing my next shoot. The client is having problems with the $365 price, saying that other photographers shoot at $250-$350 for the session and that she expected no more than $250 from me for the whole ordeal. I'm not sure who she looked at or talked to but I'm guessing they're making the money on the prints. Which I don't charge much for at all currently. My prices for prints are actually pitiful at the moment. I've worked with this client recently so I'm not going to change the prices for this shoot just to keep her happy.

May I ask why you don't offer 8x10 and under unless a certain amount is met? I've seen other photographers do this as well.

Again, thank you so much. I know that was a lot of information for you to type up. It definitely helped me understand.

[cvalene]

I keep thinking about the legal business question.

I have an "assumed name"

Am I supposed to be collecting/filing taxes? This is my first month making a maximum of roughly $400. Ever.

Also, she knows I'm a student. Forgot to answer that.

[Howard Barlow]

If you even advertise yourself as in business, much less engage in it on any level, you are required, by law, to have your sales tax number. There is no 'making money to pay for my hobby', 'not really in business', 'just occasional part-time', etc. If you sell, or advertise to sell, you are in business.

[Flea77]

I will take Howard's statement a bit further. Even if you GIVE your stuff away, as in you charge them $1000 then credit them $1000 so the total is zero, you still have to collect sales taxes. Even if you trade your services for the services of someone else so no money changes hands, you still have to collect sales tax.

Allan

[camera shy]

It does seem that setting up a legal business should be a basic course taught in Art School. It's not, and that's a shame.

Lots of people are "illegal" but it doesn't make it right.
Straighten this part out and you'll feel better about your business and people
will feel better about you.

[cvalene]

Wow, yeah my prof mentions about the business aspect but not in detail. I obviously need to consult with my parents CPA (for convenience sake) for more information about this, unless anyone knows anywhere else to get free user-friendly info? I've looked at IRS.gov at their "self-employed" virtual workshop videos... but it just makes me sick to my stomach. haha

Thank you all for all of your help. I definitely want do things right.

[cvalene]

If I'm still paying tax on the prints I get from whcc, do I have to also put tax on the clients bill?

[David Whatley]

You have the assumed name, just get the Tax Id number for now. Later you might want to do a LLC or INC for the business. You might also consider insurance.
Now, as far as the current question. If she expects to pay you no more than $250.00 you have a tough call to make. Do you do it or not.
I'm sure she can find some one on Craigs List to come out, and shoot and burn her a CD for 250.00. I wouldnt do it for that. You are going to be spending SEVERAL hours just doing the shoot, let alone any other time involved. I either make money to walk out the door, or I do it for free.
If I was doing the shoot it would cost them 200 for the session and the print prices are below
6X4 $6.00
7X5 $12.00
10X8 $25.00
14X11 $50.00
20X16 $90.00
24X20 $120.00

[Dobick]

Texas.gov | Topics

The Texas website is pretty good place to start as far as finding out information for what is required to set up a new business in Texas...

[cvalene]

So, with the tax id... i can file to be tax exempt and start charging sales tax on tangible items correct?
I don't really feel comfortable with changing the print prices (for her since I just provided her prints for another shoot), which are a bit (way) lower than the ones you just posted so I really wouldn't be making much if I dropped the session down to $200 because of the $125 rental fee I'm having to pay. Next time I'll focus on lower session prices and higher print prices. Sounds much better. I don't know why I didn't catch on to that before.

I can't believe how helpful each one of you have been. Thank you so much.

[cvalene]

Texas.gov | Topics

The Texas website is pretty good place to start as far as finding out information for what is required to set up a new business in Texas...

Ah that looks convenient, thank you for sharing!

[reader0428]

Cherese, read this:
http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...ographers.html

Then read it again. And again. :)

[cvalene]

Cherese, read this:
Taxes for Photographers

Then read it again. And again. :)

Haha thank you! You are wonderful!

Hmm, so the client that I'm doing this shoot for is an accountant... :P