Need advice, please

[OversighT]

Background: In my full-time job I'm a senior manager on the web team for my company (Cyber). I manage 5 full-time employees and 2 contractors and am responsible for a wide range of internal and external websites. I've been working for this company for 5 years.

I've been doing photography as a side job for about a year now and within the past 6 months I've become one of the "official" photographers for the company (taking photos of company events... softball tournament, chili cookoff, Halloween gathering, etc... no pay is involved). One of the guys in the Marketing department had the bright idea of sending me to NY to photograph our new office in Manhattan which would be used on a website and in print. When I asked if I would be a paid photographer working for Cyber or as an employee of Cyber he told me I would be going as an employee. This raised alarms in my head:

1. As an employee anything I create for the company while working for the company is the property of the company (meaning I won't get paid for the photos).
2. My job description (and salary) doesn't include taking photos for the company. Taking photos of employees and doing commercial photos are different.
3. All of the photo gear I would be using is mine, not the company's.

How do you think I should handle this? I'm thinking I should do a bit of research and find out how much a commercial professional would charge for a 2 day trip to NY with an unrestricted usage license to the photos given to the client... take that number and use it as a base for my own cost and present the Marketing guys with a proposal that they hire Troy Schneider Photography to do the shoot. If they don't go for it then I don't do the shoot for them.

Good idea or bad idea? On the other hand I could just have them fly me up there, put me up for a couple days, do the shoot and give them the photos and be glad that I got the experience.


T.

[JamesB]

I think this is getting close to walking the fine line of " a conflict of interest".

I think many companies have policies against paying its employees for services and or products, especially if you are wanting them to hire you , "Troy Schneider Photography".

I dont think it would be a bad idea to show them what it would cost to hire out side the company and maybe ask for something in return

James

[Happyfunball]

I think James has a point. You might find another way to go about it, though.

Tell them you can't properly take architecture photos without a T/S lens, which they would need to reimburse you for (Free $1100 lens), and/or have them pay for your S/O to go with you so it's part vacation too.

[suzyjazz]

I think James is right. However, if you are going to show them what they would have to pay an outside pro to do the same job, in hopes of getting *something* in return, have some idea of what a fair exchange would be. You would get a good experience out of it, but since the photos are owned by the company, you need to make sure that you would have rights to use them in your portfolio, if you wanted. Even if it is a great experience and one that you would learn from, not being able ot use the photos to market yoursef is a big blow IMO.

[OversighT]

James... thanks for bringing up that point. I can go talk to our compliance officer and find out from her what the rules are. They already know that I have a photography side business, but I have no idea what kind of rules they have in place for situations like this.

Json... that is exactly what I was thinking. I know the lenses that I have leave a lot to be desired and I was going to talk to them about equipment upgrades to do the shoot. I just thought it would be better for them to pay my business for the work and then I buy the lens(es) versus them just reimbursing me for the gear.

Suzy... I will definitely make sure that I can use the photos in my portfolio. Licensing of the photos is something we really haven't discussed yet, but I know that they would like to have unlimited rights. If I end up shooting as an employee with certain expenses reimbursed (flight, room, food, lenses) then they will have full rights and I'll get portfolio rights (at least that's my plan).

Thanks for the replies everyone.


T.

[Terrancelee]

photograph our new office in Manhattan

this is the only thing they would have rights to, really. I mean, it's your equipment, and all, so they will only get the shots you give them. Whatever you might shoot in NYC, is up to you.

If you feel you need a new lens, I think it reasonable for them to foot the bill. Or, have them pay for you and your wife both to have a weekend + for this shot. You'd probably need to be there during the work week to get working shots, so that means at least a 3 day weekend. Provided your wife can take off work, and you either don't have kids or have a place for them to stay for 3 days.

It appears that you've already taken several types of shots free of charge for the company, and even though they are used to getting something for nothing from you, they should realize they have really been taking advantage of the situation and should not expect everything for free. This time it won't be a *social* event, as the others were.

(disclaimer) assumptions made that you might have a wife/kids. :)

[brad]

No, no, no, no, no.

You need to draw a line in the sand with them, period. That they are wanting to use your own photographic equipment is no different than them requiring you use your own computer to do web design and programming for them or for you to use your Personally Owned Vehicle to run company errands. They CANNOT force you, as an employee, to use your PERSONAL equipment without reimbursing you a fair value for its use. I don't know what that number is for cameras or computers, but for POVs, its currently 48 1/2 cents a mile.

If they want to send you to NYC to take pictures on official company business (or even to a picnic to do the same), they need to either reimburse you for the use of your equipment or they need to supply the equipment. Your time is theirs, that's why they pay you as an employee, but your property is not theirs. They have to rent that.

(Oh, and just because "photographer" is not in your job description doesn't mean they can't ask you to do photographic services... Texas is an "at will" employment state.. meaning that they hire you to do whatever job it is they think they need you to do and can let you go at any time with or without cause... although without cause usually requires a customary two week notice.)

[haraki74]

Everyone's thoughts are great, but...what is the culture of your company. Is it a warm freindly atmospehre where you can talk openly with those asking you to do this, or is it a hostile environment where individuality is a sin and joining the ranks is preferred. If it's the first, just talk to your boss, then go see the Marketing guys. They'll understand and should compensate you at least for using your own equipment but probablly not a new lens.

[OversighT]

It is definitely the first and I've known the director of Marketing for years so I can talk honestly with him. I did talk to my boss and she recommended that I give them a proposal and see how they take it. They need the photos so either they work with me to take them or they hire a photographer in NY to do it. I want to do it, I just don't think I should do it for free.

The key thing that I've learned from this thread is that I don't necessarily have to approach this as "they must hire my company to do the shoot for them". I can work with them as an employee to get some kind of compensation and recognition.

Thanks for all of the great feedback everyone.


T.

[haraki74]

Glad to hear it's the first. As a Marketing guy, I have done the same and offered employees some sort of compensation for using their own equipment either money, a day off or something special for the extra work. I have also been on the receiving end when asked to shoot some company events. Just be open and upfront with them, the will understand.

Harry

[xseption]

Wonderful conversation ... thanks to eveyone in sharing your thoughts ... gives me something to think about

[ndsimm]

you got some pretty good comments already, but you also have a good point about not being taken advantage of. It hasn't been said, but the main reason you are "the company photographer" is so they won't have to pay full price for someone else they have already budgeted to do the jobs. You indeed need to talk to someone with decision making power and get at least semi compensated....