How to deal with a not-for-profit organization?

[evil4blue]

I was approached today by a non-profit organization about possibly using one of my photo's. How do you price stuff for place like this. Truthfully this would be a BIG deal if they were to use my photo, and getting a photo credit at this place would almost be worth letting them have it for free. That said, this is an expensive hobby and compensation would be nice. How do you handle this sorta stuff.

Also, is there some sort of tax break if I "Donate" my services to a non-profit? This in fact maybe more beneficial to me, then a few bucks for the photo.

So far I told the marketing director that I wouldn't be opposed to them using the photo in some non-profit advertising, but if they plan on using it in retail merchandise, that we could hammer out some sorta of equitable compensation.

Please don't ask for the name of the organization, its a big deal, to me, if the deal goes through, but I don't want to toot my horn until this is official.

[adam7731]

last time i talked to my cpa about demo work or giving away to a non prof She told me i can deduct the amount that it cost me to make the image not what i would mark it up to sell.

IE film, paper, milage, ink, batteries, Hair & Makeup... For instance i shot a wedding and gave everything to the bride and groom. A friend of a friend kind of deal. That wedding would have made me a couple thousand however it would only cost me $300.00 in tanagable products... It wasnt worth me deducting the wedding for a total of a couple bucks.

now if some one was willing to buy your image for the fair market price then give it away to the None Prof they yes they would get the full price for the deduction.

[Shane]

You cannot deduct the value of time or services to a charitable organization, but you can deduct any hard costs associated with that volunteering, such as the paper for the print.

Your friends at the IRS will also let you deduct any out-of-pocket expenses you acquire in the course of volunteering, but services and intangible value (ie. the value of your photo) is not deductible.

In addition, having done some work with a nonprofit before, their budgets are usually pretty limited; so, the recognition from the photo credits might be worth a lot more to you than the token payment they might be able to make.

Now, like you said . . . if they are planning to use the image for a marketable material (calendar, t-shirt), you should have some sort of profit-sharing agreement in place with them prior to the photo's use.

[LoungeLizard]

Non profit means THEY cannot make a profit - not that you cannot.

[evil4blue]

Originally Posted by LoungeLizard

Non profit means THEY cannot make a profit - not that you cannot.

I smell what you're cooking. I feel the same way, but I also don't want to price myself out of them using my stuff. I'm walking a fine line here and would rather have the pub than a couple hundred bucks. My response to them was basically, let me see what you plan on doing with my photo and I let you know how much I would like.

[evil4blue]

Yeah and thanks for all the responses. This is all very enlightening.

[adam7731]

Normally the easy way out of this is to ask them.
what is your budget?

they will tell you what they can afford to spend. If you want to make money then add 20 percent to the number they give you. if you are trying to just get enough to cover ends then take what they offer or better yet minus 5 percent and here is the best part you can deduct that refund as a donation. It must be written up in a contract so our little friends at the IRS will be happy. big companies do that sort of thing all the time.

[TxKent]

Having come from a non-profit background - (albeit state government - I worked with people in volunteer services, so have a bit of knowledge) remember that non-profit doesn't mean broke. They probably have at least one grant writer on staff, and have fundraising staff to boot. The folks I used to work with used to try to bluff people into thinking that they were destitute - which they weren't, and even though the money or products that were donated went to a very good cause - some of it seemed a bit wonky. Some of it didn't make it to the intended recipients - it got used in the office.

I remember seeing the director of the Special Olympics in Corpus Christi's office - and he had probably $100,000 worth of autographed memorabilia on his walls. Nolan Ryan baseballs, Troy Aikman footballs, Garth Brooks autographed shirt in a frame, stuff like that. It was all donated for auction use - but this guy plastered the walls of his office. Now he's running for Sheriff of the County.

I guess what I'm saying is to do a bit of research - make sure that it's 100% on the level.

[Russell]

Originally Posted by evil4blue

I was approached today by a non-profit organization about possibly using one of my photo's. How do you price stuff for place like this.

Non-profit doesn't mean no profit. For them, the cost of photos is like the cost of other overhead. They have to pay for things like copy paper, staples, computers, and other stuff. Why not your photos?

I had a client from the Plano ISD who wanted an image say the same thing to me about the district is non-profit educational. After I got him to realize that everything thing they use to run their office has value, he was more apt to get on board.

Bottom line: if they value your image enough to want to use it, they ought to pay you.

-Russell

[suzyjazz]

This is a very good thread. I can't really help as I haven't had any experience with this. I tried and failed to get advertising from a non-profit organization by letting them use my images for a particular purpose and they would put my business name and logo on it, and not pay a dime to me. They won't even do *that*. They refuse to endorse any product/business to help them raise funds. It's crazy to me that I was willing to give work away (I need the advertisiung badly) and they still won't do it even though they loved the idea. I have given up on them.

[CaptainTom]

I have extensive background with not for profit companies. I worked for a not for profit for 5 years.
Just because they are not for profit, doesn't mean they don't have any money....
My not for profit company had lots and lots of money, and spent it like water. They had to, because they could not have anything left over at the end of the year....
What you run into, is folks at not for profit groups who are very expert at getting things for free or for little cost. I work as a photographer for a couple of these groups, and once I established to them that I wasn't going to give away my services, we now have a nice agreement regarding payment. Granted, if they find someone as good as I am (easy enough) who will do it for free, I am probably out of work... But that goes for the guy/gal who does the wedding for $100 because they are not a "professional"....They are putting others out of business.
You shouldn't have gotten me started on this. I can rant for hours.....

[Clint_Smith]

I would negotiate with them. Ask them what your photo is worth to them....Hopefully it is close to the value you place on it.

[adam7731]

after a few years of dealing with commercial accounts that are on a small budget your start is to find out what the budget is.

Just ask them, believe me they will tell you.
If it's not enough be honest and tell them you would like more. come to an agreement. You have to like the fact that your going to get some free advertising out of the deal plus a new tear to add to your book.

[Russell]

Originally Posted by adam7731

You have to like the fact that your going to get some free advertising out of the deal plus a new tear to add to your book.

Free advertising. though, isn't all it's cracked up to be. Let's say a local grocery store asks to use one of my ag images for their store and says, "look at all of the free advertising you'll get..."

Free advertising, sure, but who am I advertising to. The real key is to understand who your markets are and if free advertising will ultimately reach them. My markets are all in big cities and across Texas and the country. Therefore, I may indeed get free advertising from the store but ultimately, the free advertising has no benefit to me at all. The image winds up only benefitting the store. I have never licensed an image in Childress, Texas and probably never will so all the advertising in the world does me no good here because of the markets I target.

Therefore, if someone wants to use one of my images, I nearly always charge. Giving away images hurts people trying to make a living from photography - especially when the company recieving the benefits could have paid for the pictures to begin with.

-Russell

[evil4blue]

Thanks so much guys, this is all really good information.

I'm waiting to hear back from the marketing director and I asked for a face-to-face meeting. I think I established that I'm not going to do this for free, but I'm willing to hear them out as long as they return the favor it kind. Kinda along the lines of what Tom said, I KNOW this place has money to spend, I was just kind of taken aback when they tried to play the poverty card. I also let them know that I would not sell the rights to the photograph, unless they're willing to pay my ungodly rate, but would be more than willing to draw up a licensing contract.

Oh well, I hope to hear something before this weekend and I'll keep everyone informed.