Anti-Male bias?

[kimberley]

Dave while this is my first FULL senior year...I have been shooting non stop since I launched in April ( I took off Jan-April because of my sons brain surgery) I am booked into November, I dont shoot in December-Feb ( that may change depending on if the demand is there) the weather is just to unpredictable and I take this time to spend with my family.

I agree with Brad, there is a ton of more oppurtunity for the girls out there and I think this has been the downfall of the industry, its just to easy, unlike when I started it was a male dominated industry I have seen the recent shift in the past 2-3 years...but I think most of the girl driven oppurtunity are geared to the mommy photog and not the PRO so to speak, you will see many many newbies at these tyoe of events while you seen the more serious pro at the equal oppurtunity events, such as AfterDark, Wppi, Imaging etc...

just my 2 cents again :D

[Tom]

.but I think most of the girl driven oppurtunity are geared to the mommy photog and not the PRO so to speak

Agree completely.

[brad]

Originally Posted by kimberley

but I think most of the girl driven oppurtunity are geared to the mommy photog and not the PRO so to speak

Originally Posted by Tom

Agree completely.

Yup.. exactly what I was trying to say, but Kimberley said it better.

[carrbowl]

There is a male photographer in the area that has a studio. He had built a huge senior business and was known specifically for his senior work. He told me he was moving away from seniors because there wasn't a good business anymore. After talking to mothers in the area, what I found out was his shots were too sexy and he over processed the skin. One mother was even offended that he asked the boy to take a photo in a wife beater t-shirt. He also kept people waiting for their appointments, and didn't communicate well about appropriate attire for the photoshoot. He refused to shoot the first time, because he didn't like what one boy brought!!!

I personally think it doesn't matter if you are male or female. You just have to keep in mind your target audience. If a male senior is in charge of looking for a photographer who is he gonna look to? a male or female? plus if your work is good, your work is good...bottom line.

[hdctx]

his shots were too sexy and he overprocessed the skin? I imagine if he didn't let the girls pose the way they wanted and left in the pimples, his phone would be ringing off the hook.

It's like riding the edge of a sword. Do modest shots like mom wants and the girls won't even mention you as a photographer, do provocative poses and the kid says I want this photographer, but mom freaks out. Offended by a wife beater t-shirt? Is that a class thing? I thought the guy just wanted to show off muscle.

Lots to learn.

[Howard Barlow]

Originally Posted by hdctx

his shots were too sexy and he overprocessed the skin? I imagine if he didn't let the girls pose the way they wanted and left in the pimples, his phone would be ringing off the hook.

Dave, have you seen plastic skin processing? It isn't cleaning up a complexion. It is way over done, to the point it no longer looks like skin. No pores, no detail, smooth as porcelain. Actually, more like wax.

It's like riding the edge of a sword. Do modest shots like mom wants and the girls won't even mention you as a photographer, do provocative poses and the kid says I want this photographer, but mom freaks out. Offended by a wife beater t-shirt? Is that a class thing? I thought the guy just wanted to show off muscle.

Actually, there are many girls who do not want to approach sexy. Some do. Some will do anything you you will let them do. There are moms who want them to do even more than that. There are all kinds of people out there.

Keep in mind, though, you have one chance to build a positive business reputation.

Lots to learn.

For beginners and seasoned pros, alike. Anyone who chooses to stop learning is an ignorant, not to mention arrogant, person, IMNSHO.

[Cajungaltx]

A huge factor that I think impacts the entire male/female photographer aspect of it is the aspect of relationship building.

This isn't just photography industry specific I might add...but I do see it being very relevant to this industry.

The ability to form relationships/develop relationships is 'usually' considered to be a skill that females find easier....I've know several photographers (male) that are awesome at 'connecting' with people...but I think it is 'easier' for women to do it than guys....and it is a huge struggle for some men.

20 years ago - customers looked in the phone book, or went to whatever studio they could 'see'....and ask for referrals from people they knew.

10 years ago - they would do a search engine....ask friends...

Today...they google photographers...they check you out on Facebook....they want to know who 'you' are as a person.... and if your a good photographer. They check out your blog...

It's changed...and I think the reality is that most of us have similar gear...with the same editing software...the main difference is the person using it. So you HAVE to be able to market that.

MUST BE ABLE...

Or I think you'll struggle...or you have to do something different.

I get to hang out with a photographer that's been doing this for longer than I've been on the earth... He's in his late 60's I think. Grey headed...at least the part that has hair. ;-) He's the kind of guy who looks his age. He's one of the most amazing photographers I know with a skill set that makes me weep I'm so envious. He is the consummate professional. I'll use Wayne from Portraits by Design... he's (to my 38 year old self) been doing this for quite a while and is an amazing guy always willing to help out...and he is super professional. Both of these photographers make me think 'classy' when I think of them...which should be the goal.

If you don't have the personality to compete on the whole 'BFF' field... then take a page out of those guys book and choose a different hat to wear.

I don't believe 'having a penis' makes you less likely to get business... or more likely to be thought of as a pervert or weird.... as long as you don't act like one.

Just my 2 cents.. ;-)

[hdctx]

Donna, well said. While I'm not the BFF type by any stretch, I think I get along with women better than men. My wife thinks I'm borderline Ashburger, my social radar is definately faulty, LOL. I've asked her to be more involved and help me with relationship building. I've been fostering toddlers for five years, sometimes as a stay at home dad, so I know I relate well to kids. I've assembled my basic hardware and will spend the next few months building a portrait portfolio, and will be shooting several of our friends kids. I know the real test will be producing pictures people actually want to hang on their walls and share with their friends and family. That, and never stop learning.

Thanks to all of you for the feedback!

[StevenGWebb]

I see many more women going into a photography endeavor than men. 50 years ago society was different, men's work and women's work were more nearly defined. There weren't many occupations, much less professions for women. Girls went to school and took home making class and boys took wood shop. Unless a girl planned on being a teacher, nurse, secretary or stewardess she set her eyes on being a homemaker and housewife. Additionally, women weren't fostered for complicated things. Guys had a monopoly on mechanical things. I believe the general feeling then was that photography was just to complex a task, what with all dials and knobs, for a woman. That was then.

We're still holding on to a lot of traditional roles. They may no longer be housewife's but they are still soccer moms. Women by-and-large play the larger role in child raising to this day. Moms are the cheerleader sponsors or on the committee for the little league. This puts them in a position of leverage when it comes to networking. The first one of them that picks up a camera has a built-in client base.

In my limited experience, I have found more male photographers who can hold a conversation about the technical aspects of photography. In my 5 years of participation in photography forums I've seen more technical advice and instructional guidance come from men. Yet I see three times as many women going into the photography business. Too bad more of these folks don't marry and team up, but I suppose that's archaic thinking.

Men get a bad rap from the time they are boys. What do parents teach their little girls? "Boys are only interested in one thing". Though there is some stereotyping still around, I seem to be seeing more stories in the news about female teachers having inappropriate relationships with (boy) students. Photographers do not hold the monopoly on perceived perversion in once trusted positions, consider clergymen and Boy Scout leaders.

What can anyone take away from all my ramblings? If you have a desire to be a professional photographer, master your craft and be serious about your business first and foremost. Develop a reputation and protect it. It takes time and effort. Character is very important. Remember people are not nearly so judgmental as they are evaluative. People do not plan to fail, they fail to plan and part of the failure stems from not knowing. It used to be acceptable for a photographer to approach a young mother, compliment her on her beautiful little daughter and offer a business card. Today a photographer might spend a couple of hours with investigators if he did that.

Portrait photography has long been dependent on word-of-mouth promotion. Make sure the mouth that's spreading words about you belongs to a person of the caliber of person you want to do business with. Birds of a feather, you know moms trust other moms in their own circle of influence.

I'm 50 now and have graying hair. I have to keep that in mind. The approach I make now is nothing like the one I did when I was mid-20's. Not only have I changed but so have the times.

Best of success with your endeavors. I too am in the equipment acquisition phase of building a portrait business.

Steve

[kenw]

Might a serious hobbyist pipe in for a minute?

I know several new photographers who are at various stages of becoming ‘pro’. And over the years I have known a few more go thru the process. One thing many (not all) of them had in common is that it always started as a second job. Two that come to mind at the moment have left (or are winding down) more traditional careers (teacher, office admin) as they ramp up their photog business. Both have sincere talent, but varying degrees of drive. One will definitely make it, the other, too early to tell. But they are both going for it in a big way.

But here’s the common thread in ALL of these: they have a mate who has a full time job with retirement and insurance. The risk of starting out in any business is minimized if you don’t have to depend on it to eat. They don’t: they have a mate with a good job that can support the family on one income. For a lot of us that one single factor is the determining part of whether to go full time or not. I’m a single income family; my wife could start a business and have a significant amount of cushion to ride out the 1-3 year startup as we aren’t giving up ANY income at all while she builds whatever business she desires. I know several full-time photogs for whom this is the case. All are female. Me? Not only can I not instantly replace my current income in a photography business, I also can’t pay for insurance, 401k, etc etc that I would require in order to make that move. Heck, I would retire tomorrow camera or not if I could get insurance… Perhaps it is a field for retirement income someday, but until then, life ain’t handing me too many options. I also know a few guys who, like me, would like to turn pro someday. But as the major income producer in the family, we don’t have that option.

So bottomline is that I don’t necessarily think it is a male-female thing, but more a part of WHO has the option. And in most cases today, for many good and bad reasons, the options favor the ladies.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by hdctx

To repeat where this started, I was talking to my wife about the seniors market, and she commented not to market to aggressively or some moms may think I'm a pedophile....Are mothers actually allowing their daughters to do poses where the only clothing visible is a UT jersey? Or are those shots most likely from kids already 18?

This is a safety issue. No minors are allowed to have their portraits taken without their parents permission. Parent or guardian must be present at the shoot. Period. Those are my rules and I am a girl.

This sounds more like an issue of being comfortable around clients and making them comfortable with you. It may be more obvious with female clients, but you could have the same issues with a male client. Studio polices protect you and the client. If their parent is there and then the parent is responsible for them - not you. You should never be making decisions like that for a minor.

I think you are on the right track. No harm in covering your butt and making everyone as comfy as possible. btw, this is a male dominated industry. there may be more female photogs around, but gender isn't the issue this time b/c im a chick and have to address the same problems.

[panhandler]

Dave,
No offense but think you're getting overly paronoid. I work with ages from months old up to way above my age (62). I've never had any issues from momma or papa with little Betty Jean being posed by me. The parent(s) are right there so there's no touchy feely going on....not that there ever would be.

Just do what's comfortable for you...if doing children portraits are buggin' you that much then take it out of your toolbox.

[hdctx]

Steve, I've been a foster dad to newborns/toddlers for years, and I love kids.
I asked the question in response to my wife's remark, and after noticing the huge number of very successful female photographers. The issue is I WANT to take kids pictures. Heck, I'd love to do senior pics in a Jim DeMint style, and I was concerned that there might be a market bias I was unfamiliar with. These days, kids aren't even allowed to run and play without safety equipment, GBS trackers, and helicopter parents. In my day, you just had to be in by dark. What's funny is, the crime rate against kids isn't a bit higher, but the paranoia rate is through the roof. I was worried middle aged male photographers might be the new scout leader or preist. I've recieved enough good answers to my question that my comfort level is higher. Now I just have to beef up my portfolio. Thanks everyone for the feedback. Forgive me if I don't tell my wife everyone thought she was paranoid.

[StevenGWebb]

Dave,
I think you'll do just fine. There is nothing wrong wtih a little well placed caution. I think your being aware of dangers will keep you away from them. Best wises in your endeavors.
Steve

[MyKey]

As one of the ten members on the PPA education committee for the last 2 years and now Co-Chair for 2013 I can say without question the power of the ladies has gotten stronger and stronger. With that said since the start of photography it was a male driven business and until the digital world continued to be. I personally love the Female point of view, it expands my mind as an artists, allows me to understand and see from a point of view I would never have done before. The vast majority of new photographers are women today as well as the majority of members of the PPA. Does this mean women have an advantage over men - maybe, but if you use that an excuse you already have lost the battle in being a professional photographer.

Sure know about it, understand the differences but use them to your advantage. For us here at TriCoast we have both male and female photographers and we use them to each situation to its fullest. It allows us to have our clients relax in front of the camera and in the end once they know us it does matter who captures their image because they have a blast doing it.

Selling the Experience is one of the most important aspects of photography. In today's world it goes beyond just emails or hand shaking its a way of life. Its what you put on Facebook, how or what you say on Twitter and for sure what you do in your business.

If you put on creepy statements on Facebook don't expect girls to come flocking your studio doors.

If you take workshops and take pics of sexy women in bathing suits and post them on your site, don't expect senior girls to fill your books up. There is nothing wrong with this but just like a teacher wearing a low cut top - it does not fit the job and as a professional you must play your part if your going to expect the community to respond in the ways you want them too (especially in smaller areas).

If you get ONE client to think your a perv it could end your business so protect yourself at all times by having parents present, an assistant present, etc. If not your opening yourself up for a lot of issues. Its a part of life sadly so just know it and make adjustments.

I have seniors hug me, laugh with me, post on my facebook page, etc. but I NEVER friend them first, I NEVER hug them first and I NEVER do anything which would make them think I am a perv or creepier. Again its the little things which make or break your business and you ALWAYS need to know about it, especially when trying to start a business.

Once they know you, once the community knows about you, it gets easier but you still ALWAYS need to understand your place, be professional and move on. If you do there is no difference in a client going to a male or female photographer. Honestly if they do who cares, they are not my client.

I have so much more important things to worry about than the "What If's" in my life - the "Real Life's" are happening everyday and I don't want to miss a single one!

Remember you can do ANYTHING in Photography, I am living proof of it. Don't make any excuses (not saying you are just making a statement) understand your client and how you need to expand to make your business grow. BUSINESS is the key not the portraits you make behind the camera so the more homework you do the luckier you become and by default the more successful.