copyright question

[GoldenOrb]

yep, I know that the above isnt really business
But it has to do with business and need some reasonably urgent advice

Long story short I have a painter who wants to paint my images.. fair enough Im honored..

However she then wants to sell them??

Now I know there are some very experienced photographers on here and I dare say some international laws may differ but what is your suggestions.

I know the painter.. not well, but I know her enough and not a big fan of mixing business and pleasure.

your thoughts anyone??

[groovyone]

Is her name Bob Dylan?

No idea really. Seems like that one is completely up to you since you'd be giving her permission to do so. Maybe you can work out some financial compensation, like a cut of the sales for you.

(In case no one got the reference: The Online Photographer: Is Bob Dylan a Plagiarist?)

[Tom]

Register your images now. If she wants to paint your pictures, she needs to license them from you.

If you don't register your images with copyright.gov, there is basically nothing you can do.

[kenw]

There is pleny you can do without 'registering' them, it is just that the Copyright Office will not get involved on your part if you do not register it w/them. A Copyright is just as valid without registration.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by kenw

There is pleny you can do without 'registering' them, it is just that the Copyright Office will not get involved on your part if you do not register it w/them. A Copyright is just as valid without registration.

No, there isn't plenty you can do.

Without registration, you can only get ACTUAL damages, which in most cases aren't very high. In fact, they are usually so low that a lawyer won't take the case unless you pay them hourly, which would exceed the actual damages very quickly.

To get punitive damages, you must have registered the images. This means you are entitled to up to $150,000 in addition to actual damages. It also means an attorney will get in there with you and help you get it.

Without the threat of punitive damages, all you can really do is write really mean sounding demand letters. You still own the copyright, but it isn't worth it to enforce it.

The US Copyright office never gets involved. To enforce your copyright, you have to file a suit in federal court. That judge will be the one to get involved.

[KJ Smith]

Note that he is not in the USA.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by KJ Smith

Note that he is not in the USA.

I keep forgetting that this isn't the Texas Photo Forum.

[GoldenOrb]

thanks guys, i really appreciate everyones input. Like i said, i am honored that someone likes my photos to paint them but my gut feeling is saying no. i generally dont go against what i feel.
I know the painters husband quite well he is one of my old SGT's and if i said no, then they will understand and respect that.
I find it quite interesting that painter wants to use the photos as "inspiration" which to me means shes not trying hard enough. The painter is in the same location i was in, with the same opportunities, same weather patterns.. everything. the fact that they own a 7d or what ever it is that they have.... makes me question why the painter cant take her own photo and have her own 'dimension on things'.
I really appreciate everyones advice. Im sure copyright in US vs Aus vs International is similar in parts, will have to do some researching.

thanks again

[Outlander]

sell her the rights to use your images as inspiration. What the going rate for that is I don't know.
Perhaps you could barter a couple of her paintings for the rights ??

[J Eddington]

Here is a link that should help you.
Australian Copyright Council

[TxTowman]

Maybe you could sell photographs of her paintings of your photographs.

Or, photographs of her painting your photograph at the location where you took the photograph.

Just thinkin' outside the box.

[GoldenOrb]

Thanks again, Ive been limited with my net access. Im stuck (for a few weeks) in the middle of the WA desert at the moment , so dont have much ability to check let alone time to go hunting around for stuff. Ive taken a heap of photos here but will post them up when I get back home next week. internet here seems as though the moon, sun and a few trees must all align to get reception
long story short and like I said, my gut instinct is usually right and its telling me no.. which I have told them
I like Sidney's idea I had a laugh at that.
thanks again and thanks Janice for the link

[T. Adam Martin]

I'm just curious what it is you have to lose here?

Indemnification is the principle of being made whole. I understand if you sell your images and feel that her creating a facsimile via painting will impinge on your ability to drive sales; however, if these are leisure images, or this is a hobby, then how are you worse off than before?

I'm more curious in what's compelling your gut toward "no" than the legalities of what you "COULD" or "SHOULD" do. You mention you're not a fan of mixing business and pleasure: I'm not either. So don't charge her for it. Is the real concern that she could make money and you wouldn't get a cut of it?

Yes, everything has a price; yet, that doesn't necessarily mean we should ALWAYS charge for EVERYTHING.

[GoldenOrb]

Good post Tyler.
Im a big fan for one rule for all. ie I dont want to have different rules in regards to what one person can do with them vs the next. I dont want the hassle of someone complaining that I give one persons opportunity vs not the next. Its quite common here. It seems that our society all revolves around who can complain the most.
I use a lot of my photos with various competitions in Aust and Internationally. With most of comps the rules relate to if they have been displayed before etc. I dont want to limit my options when it comes to those comps when I haven't used some of them. Its a good way to see where Im at and how I can better myself with the judges critiquing. A lot of the photos that the lady wants to use are the photos that I have had judged and won awards for.
I see photography as someones perception of something. I take a shot at a location, you will take a different shot of the same thing whether it be different lens, time of day/ night. filter etc.

Some of the photos that she wants to use are events/ weather patterns that will only happen every 200 years. But when it was happening I was out getting wet and dirty, rather then sitting at home with a bottle of wine or what ever they were up to.

I see my photos as my perception of something. i think by using my photos the painter is not using her imagination or skills to display her own perception of something. Like I said the lady has every opportunity at the same location to get the same concept but by using her own mind.

Im not so worried about a money thing. And its not something that i can monitor if I was. When it comes to business i have one business assoc (my framer) that i totally trust and thats after years of service. Its not as though its my primary incomes so as long as it pays for my equipment and costs Im pretty happy with with that, anything else is a bonus.

My gut feeling/ "spidy senses" what ever you want to call it, Im not sure why my brain is being hesitant about it but it is and I have advised the couple of my thoughts and they respect that.

Again good question , dont know if i gave a good enough reason without dodging the answer by there it is.