Need a little advice from wedding photogs

[Elsaspet]

Totally agree with Carlos and Fran! A good wedding photog is a bunch of different things all at once:
1. Photographer
2. Salesperson (more important than some would realize)
3. Organized to the point of being obsessive
4. People person
5. Part time wedding coordinator
6. Efficient at Photoshop (the better, the better)
7. Customer Service Rep. (and you WILL get asked to do wacky stuff)
8. Willing to put in more hours than you would ever suspect.

Another great point:
I had a bride (who just hired me) over another person (who I happen to know from here). The other person was fairly new to wedding photography. One thing that this other person did (which I can still NOT comprehend!) was to show the bride COST on various albums. Not only showed them to her, but gave her a printout. And not only that, was willing to do the albums for COST just to get the gig. What this other photographer does not understand is that this will one day be a pain in His/Her side. It took me an hour to explain to the bride that I CANNOT do these books at cost, because on average, they take me 8 hours to build. Before I even build them, I need to process and retouch each photo individually. When I build the books, I build them in a $500 program, using TWO other $500 programs to retouch the photos. I then put them up in a gallery for there approval that it costs me $80 a month to maintain. So if she thinks she getting an album at Photographer's cost, she's nuts. It took me a full hour to "unspin" this bride from a really desperate sales pitch, but I got her, and she's going to be really happy in the long run. In my mind, I just saved her from some jpeg wedding picts, or some that were RAW and white balanced in a batch, end of story, and then hacked together in photoshop to make a book.
I know it's tempting when first starting, to give it all away, just for the experience. I was fairly cheap when I first started, but I was hammered on this same point by other photogs, and immediatly raised my prices to not devaluate the wedding photography market. A surprising thing happened. The phone started ringing.
If someone sees a price too good, or someone willing to do something a cost, it puts up giant red flags, that says your work is worth nothing. Sure, you will have some takers, but not as many as you would have if you set your pricing in accordance to industry standards combined with current ability. And trust me also, that if you do accept a cheapo job, this bride will be the worst zilla in history. This is gonna be the bride who thinks that $500 is all the money in the world, and that her Uncle Bob can do just as well. This is the uninformed bride that will think you can take her beer gut out no problem, in photoshop, and make her trailor park look like the Hilton.
Value your profession, and it will value you.
Best of luck, and I look forward to seeing you out there with all the other wedding photogs who love this biz.
Hugs,
Cindy

[cmalana]

By the way, several people have mentioned that people need to ensure that they have sustainable PRICING...which of course means that the level of work, service, quality, etc. should be on par to reflect that pricing

Of course, now we'll start seeing more $100,000 wedding packages...

[Elsaspet]

Now wouldn't that be groovy! I know there are several times I'm sitting here late at night STILL working on a slideshow or photo order, or whatever, thinking......"dang, I don't make enough!!!"
I think the 100 grand package ought to cure that. Hehe.

[*Mike*]

Wow... selling albums at cost. That's worse than the guys around here that will shoot a wedding and then dump all the RAW files for a couple of hundred bucks and walk away...

Okay, I also thought that I'd follow up a little with my last post on breaking into weddings. The popular advice is to never, never shoot a wedding unless you've tagged along on several others. Generally, I great rule of thumb. But, for someone that has experience, knowledge, communication skills, etc., it can be more conservative than is necessary. Figure in that in some places, such as around here, the competition is not particularly friendly, cooperative, or talkative, and you've got a deadlock.

If you know your stuff - bring along another shooter, and the two of you will do exceptionally well (assuming you're good photographers, and know your client.) I find that weddings seem to have an incredible "mystique" that people find intimidating from the outside, and priviledged by once they're on the inside. Now, would I suggest this to a guy looking to start out with a $50k wedding - of course not. But, do you have any idea how many weddings I'm at where the reception is Barbeque? I would confidently send my intern to cover some of those events - and they would do great at it. Is it shorting the bride because she's got a lower budget? No, it is simply a more straightforward event...

Finally, maybe I'm somewhat biased on a couple of accounts... First off, I've got ministry degrees and have attended seminary. I'm pretty comfortable with weddings... If you're able to conduct one, it's alot less stressful to cover one. And secondly, it is the NYer in me. A lot of the smaller, southern weddings lack the awe factor that makes wedding coverage so intimidating. No doubt, every wedding is a once in a lifetime shoot - but perspective still helps.

So, for an experienced photog, with the equipment, skills, background, etc to do one, and do it well... get to know your client, take along a second shooter of your own, and there's no reason to be anxious about it.

Of course, I realize that this is completely contradictory to the standard advice, but hey, I'm keeping things interesting...

[LadyShutterBug]

Totally agree with Carlos and Fran! A good wedding photog is a bunch of different things all at once:
1. Photographer
2. Salesperson (more important than some would realize)
3. Organized to the point of being obsessive
4. People person
5. Part time wedding coordinator
6. Efficient at Photoshop (the better, the better)
7. Customer Service Rep. (and you WILL get asked to do wacky stuff)
8. Willing to put in more hours than you would ever suspect

truer words were never spoken. if you don't really like weddings, do not get into wedding photography. if you cannot offest the bitchiness of a woman at her worst, or let it roll off your back, do not get into wedding photography. if you don't like dealing with controlling moms, do not get into wedding photography ;)

me, i'm not a "plays well with others" person when it comes to creativity, so i never tagged along with other photogs. i learn by doing.

i got people tp let me shoot their weddings, and i didn't charge for the first two. the next three, i charged $200. i have one bride who booked me a year and a half in advance at the $200 price, and i haven't shot her wedding yet. does this bother me? absolutely not. she had faith in me before there was any reason to, other than my sparkling personality andone box of pics i shot at hte free wedding.

find a wedding coordinator in your area. tell her you are willing to do a couple of bridal or engagement pic sessions at, say $75.

just get your feet wet! learn by doing. and don't think that you have to get paid top dollar for everything you do-- justknow that hte less you have to show potential clients, the less money you can charge. the bigger the portfolio, the more you can charge.

weddings aren't any harder than a corporate christmas party, there are just a lot more control freaks running around ;) weddings are actually lot better, there is more pretty stuff, and there are more willing people to get in your shots. the hardest part is that brides are about 500 times higher maintenance than your average corporate party-thrower when it comes to hiring a photographer.

albums are confusing as hell, but find your comfort zone, find what you like, and what you are willing to put time into. i learned the hard way tha tbrides are often more bowled over by a beautiful book of thirty 8x10 prints than the big fancy collaged albums that will run them $1500. you can make a pretty big profit from a simple self-stick paged faux leather album, and still not charge an arm and a leg for it.

if you really like weddings, go for it. if you don't really like weddings, you can try it, but make sure you really like it before you start boooking out a year in advance and are stuck with all these wedding gigs you're going to dread!

[Rolland]

John,
You have received a lot of great advice. I would add to be sure to protect yourself with a contract in case something goes wrong and there are no photos or they don't like any of them. I have been photographing weddings since 1965. You can get really burned out photographing weddings. They are a lot of stress to photograph. In the past I have had some problem with a client in about one percent of the weddings that I photographed. I absolutely do everything I can to eliminate that entirely.
What I do now is include taking an engagement photo and bridal portraits with all weddings. I want to become friends with the couple, it makes things a lot easier on the wedding day.
Since I enjoy doing album design, it separates me from uncle Harry, I do spend a lot of time designing the album so I must charge a good amount for my time. I have found that the more you charge the more cooperation and respect you get.
I started out doing weddings for friends. What really helped me was to work for a news service for a year and a half. I exposed over 10K negatives in that time and gained a lot of confidence in that time. Weddings are not for everyone.
Read everything you can find on wedding photography, there are a lot of great books on the subject. Amherst Media has a lot of great photo books. www.amherstmedia.com
Rolland

[fran reisner]

Hey gang. I was reading through the monthly newsletter I get from Miller's Professional Imaging (my lab of choice) this morning and came across a letter I thought you might all find interesting. I was going to attach the entire PDF because there's a piece on Archiving that I think would be of interest as well, but the PDF file is too large. So... I'll copy the text below my note here, and will do a seperate post with the Archiving info.
_________

Service with a Smile!
by Arnie Burton

My son Mat, my oldest
child, was recently married in
Springfield, Missouri where
he and his new bride Kelly
now reside. (Whew, I was
beginning to worry that he would remain a
bachelor for life!) It was extremely interesting
being on the consumer (or customer side)
of the wedding. I have to admit that after
experiencing wedding photography from the
“dad’s" perspective, my business opinions are
somewhat different.

Marty Sikes from Conway, Arkansas was the
wedding photographer. Marty is a superb
portrait photographer who, like many others,
has cut back on weddings in recent years. His
weddings are primarily traditional with many
nicely posed shots and just a few candids from
the reception thrown in. Things got interesting
almost from the beginning though. Mat and
Kelly both did not think they wanted “posed”
shots. Kelly’s family is from Canada, Toronto
and Edmonton, and they absolutely knew they
did not want posed shots. In the consultation
they had made it known they were not interested
in an album, just digital files that they
could share with friends. But Marty was persistent
and most importantly, patient. He got all
of the shots that he (I) wanted.

I wish I could have recorded Mat and Kelly’s
expression when they were presented with the
proof portfolio of the wedding images. They
spent hours looking at every image, reliving
the wedding all over again. Virtually every
member of the family has contacted me to say
how thankful they are that Marty insisted on
all those posed shots. The traditional photography
looks terrific in their flush mounted,
assembled album.

Times are certainly changing. Today’s bride
has been bombarded with all kinds of information
regarding old fashioned images and
albums. I am convinced there is a lot of difference
between “old fashioned” and “timeless”. I
am equally convinced that with a little salesmanship,
most brides can be convinced of the
timeless value of a professionally designed
wedding album. There is nothing old fashioned
about properly exposed, professionally posed
images is there?

I don’t have to tell you how easily a bride
can change her mind. While it is sometimes
good and necessary to follow the latest trends
in wedding photography and album sales, the

roots of professional wedding photography
are firmly embedded in prints and albums.
How many of today’s modern brides will wake
up a few years down the road and regret not
having been persuaded by her photographer
to purchase that “timeless” album?

[Clint_Smith]

Marty is a great guy. Some of his advice is what actually got me making money! LOL

He came to our guild last year and did a business presentation and also stressed the importance of making sure to service your clients like he did with Arnie's daughter (feel like I am on a first name basis with the folks at Millers). If any of the members of the TPF ever get a chance to hear him speak I highly reccomend it!

[Elsaspet]

It's funny that you bring up this point. I just upped my pricing a bit, and am getting a slightly different clientelle than I was before. Even though I'm a PJ shooter, and carry two types of digital albums, there has been a great interest in my last 4 or 5 meetings about my "pitch book" which is a large 48 side leather matted traditional album. I never planned on selling this type of book, but it's easy for me to upgrade photos in, so I use it at sales meetings. Go figure. Works for me. Saves me a day on the computer making a digi album.
My "formal" stuff still doesn't sell well in reprints (could just be that I dread the dreaded formals). Other reprints are doing well though, but tend to be the more arty, or more colorful in what I'm proofing the clients.