How should I go about this? - 2 Part Question

[d2creative]

So early in 2006 I had my first paying gig. It was shooting a bunch of pics for a website. Now remember, first gig... the website designer was my brother... he didn't budget much for photography but that was ok for me for the experience... no contract. Now the client is contacting me directly. Great group of guys, btw. They want to take two of the pics i did of the exterior of their building and blow them up big to hang on their display wall with all their old b/w pics of previous warehouse locations. It's kind of an honor to get a pic on that wall, they're very proud of their history. They are a local distributor that has been around since prohibition times.

So anyway, the first question... the obvious one... since there was no contract in the beginning stating how the pics could be used, I'm assuming I won't be able to charge them for the files. Correct? If not, how do you approach the subject keeping in mind this is definitely a bridge I do not want to burn. I will have to do a little bit of work just to get the files upsized. Oh, and after doing the first couple main shoots that I was orginally hired for, they decided to change direction a bit with two of the shots. They had no problem paying me for two half day shoots to reshoot those two images with different direction, and at my now normal pricing. But these two pics they want enlarged are not from those reshoots. Just wanted to show that they are a fair group.

Second, if I take care of the printing for them, how much do I mark up the costs? I'll probably be using whcc.com and having them mount the print. Then i'lll hand that off to the client so they can get it framed how they want.

Thanks!

[Angelo]

The way I see it, this is a business transaction.
I recommend you speak with them, tell them how excited you are that they
chose your photos to display. Then I'd tell them in order prepare and print
the quality photos they will need the cost would be $$$$
I don't think you would have to say anything more.

When they say OK, just tell them that you'll draw up a contract for
the work so they have the proper paperwork for their records. At this point I would include any and all requirements you consider important for you on the contract. Also,
tell them you will be giving them a discount since this will get you some
name recognition. And make sure your name are on the prints.
Just my approach and 2 cents

[d2creative]

Ok, thanks.
So what's the average mark up on prints?

[xjben]

I wouldn't do it as a straight markup percent...probably use portrait photo rates based on the print size. Not sure what normal rates are, but for large prints I'd think easily $100 per print, maybe more depending on size. I'm sure I've seen people charge that much for a small poster size print (20x30, maybe even smaller). Find 5-10 photographer sites and look at their rates for large prints, that's probably a fair starting place.

[Outlaw]

Without a contract, the rights to the images remain yours, legally. Unless you sign away your rights via Work For Hire or licensing, the copyright remains with you.

As for what to charge, come up with what you would charge anybody for such a print. If there's a lot of labor involved, estimate what to charge by your hourly rate plus expenses (printing, shipping) at your standard mark-up or what you research and see others are charging. Add sales tax, and you've got your standard price.

Now, since you like these folks want to give them a good deal, start finding creative ways to come down on their actual cost. If you believe the print will get some good traffic / quality viewing, slap your logo on the print and take some dollars off for that. Ask about a contract to be named their "official photographer" for a year's time; dollars off for that. Ask about being included in an upcoming press release or local print/media advertisement announcing the new print added to the historical gallery.

So long as your business is in a financial position to barter instead of needing incoming cash flow, you can usually find ways to cut your client's cost while getting twice as much good press/word of mouth/benefit in return.

As a pricing example, I recently had a wedding client come to me (three years after her wedding) wanting a "big, big print" to have framed and placed above her mantle. I suggested a 20x30 print on double-weight matboard. I regularly charge $160 for that size print, so I marked up the matboard, lustre coating and overnight shipping and handling 25-percent over my cost through Mpix, added sales tax, and had my price. She wrote me a check on the spot without blinking. I believe the total came to around $250. She then paid as much again for the matting and framing at a local art gallery and frame shop.

Work from your standard price backward if you can afford to cut your clients' cost, and therefore your cash inflow, through some creative bartering.

[d2creative]

Outlaw,

1. Cool avatar
2. Are you THE James Taylor?


3. Thanks for the info! That last paragraph was pretty much what i was looking for but lots of good suggestions in your post.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by d2creative

Outlaw,

1. Cool avatar
2. Are you THE James Taylor?
3. Thanks for the info! That last paragraph was pretty much what i was looking for but lots of good suggestions in your post.

1. Many thanks! Came about during about a three-minute impromptu shoot with one of my co-workers. I ended up with three great pieces out of it. Just goes to show, never fail to take the picture; you never know what you'll get.

2. Yes. Yes I am. If you mean that other guy who sings, I'm not him, but he's not me, so I figure we're about even at this point.

3. Good luck with your client! Please do keep us up to date on the proceedings so we can all learn from your decisions and results.

[d2creative]

ok, here's an update....

Ends up the print size they need is 20x24.
So i charged them $120.75 for the print with lustre coating and mounting on 2mm styrene board. And multiply that by 2 because they want two different prints.
I'll be sending the files to whcc this week.

Thanks!

[Outlaw]

Nothing beats money in the bank. Congratulations on a good sale!