competing photographers

[kamari]

apparently some word has spread about me and this small sports photography biz that i put together. I got calls from parents wanting me to do some work for them at their kid's games. I went and talked to the director of athletics for the league and got their permission to go ahead and shoot on their grounds. The problem is that they already use a photographer but he seems to only cover the end of season stuff and team photos. I'm looking to cover each team at tome point thru the season to get action photos of every player. From what I understand there's no contract between the photographer and the league, but I just hope this doesn't cause a problem. Anyone ever have a problem at an event with an unhappy photographer because you pose a threat to take money out of his pocket?

[AndrewCCM]

Yes.

I shot a few images of a friend of mine's nephew at the Ballpark in Arlington. (smaller field). Total jerk photog out there...

"I am the official photographer.. you need to go stand over to the side.."

Personally, I wouldn't have minded since I do this sort of thing too. But the guy was a real jerk. He started in on a parent later (that just so happened to see how he treated me earlier).. That was a funny sight. The parent LIT HIM UP LIKE I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. The photog turned and walked away muttering to himself.

All he had to do was be nice and polite. I would have explained that I was taking pics of 1 kid that was a relative of the guy standing next to me. Instead, he pulled out the jerk card.

Oh well the world is full of them.

[boxofrocks]

Oh yes.

I'm the photographer for a HS varsity FB team. I had some JV parents request I shoot their games, because they had seen my work and preferred it to the usual JV shooter. I should point out that no one has exclusivity--I share the sidelines with other photographers at the varsity games.

I saw him on the sidelines, and he marched up to me and said, "Who are you shooting for!?"

I responded as politely as I could that some of the parents had requested I be there, since they wanted some posters. His response was "Well that's #%@*ing great". and walked over to the opposite sidelines, not saying a word to me the rest of the day.

A few days later, the booster club president fowarded me a message from him which read:

Tom Manchester was shooting JV game Thursday evening. Does he not have any respect or integrity? I was under the impression that he shot the Varsity, I was asked to shoot the home JV and Freshman games. I guess he'll just muscle his way into ever (sic) event!

I tried to reach a reasonable solution with him, and sent the following email:

(The booster club president) let me know that you shared some concerns with her about my presence at the JV game last week, and I wanted to take an opportunity to address them.


As I mentioned to you when we spoke briefly last Thursday, several of the parents have made specific requests to me personally to take photos of their sons playing Freshman and JV. Most of those expressed interest in buying posters of the boys, as well. This is the reason I was at the game, and why I had planned on shooting other games until I could fill these requests.


As you may know, there are several photographers that come out to shoot the Varsity games, and some of those also post their photos in online galleries for sale. At one game this season, I had a very friendly chat with another photographer I had never met before that was shooting at the request of some parents. During games, I usually chat with the other photographers there, and we even trade tips on equipment and techniques that will help us get better photos. The Varsity sidelines are not a closed venue, and I work under the assumption that as long as they have a field pass (or even if they don't, which is often the case) other photographers have the right to be there. While I value the relationship I have been able to develop with Coach xxxxx and the Booster Club, I don't conclude that the it gives me any right to be the only photographer on the sidelines.


I assumed that the same held true for JV games, but nevertheless didn't work them until I received several specific requests to do so. While I realize that just as others compete with me, my products and services may compete with yours in some instances (I'm not aware of you offering posters of the players), I was operating under the impression that we could work under an atmosphere of friendly competition, as I do with other photographers. I know that you have a link on the xxxxxxxxx.com website, and they are not linking any of my sub-varsity photos directly from their home page. Just as I'm not the only Varsity shooter, it is not my understanding that you have been given exclusivity for shooting JV. However, if that is indeed the case, then I sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding.


If you have any questions, I welcome the opportunity to discuss this with you. If you feel that my business practices are in any way unethical, please let me know what the specific issue may be, and I will do my very best to address it in a fair and respectful manner.

I look forward to your reply.

I though that was nicely put, but got nowhere with him after several other exchanges. I finally dropped it, since the cost of the loss of goodwill was potentially more than it was worth to me.

There are some out there that think if they got there first, it belongs to them--no matter who you talked to. Obviously not everyone is like that, but sooner or later, you'll cross paths with someone who doesn't understand the concept of a free-market economy. You have to decide whether it's worth it to fight.

[CaptainTom]

Most of these guys act like "rent a cops". They think they have some power, but mostly don't know what is right and what is wrong. So, they do the wrong thing in the name of power, and we suffer for it.

[xjben]

I could see someone having "exclusive" rights with a league, where for example they have special access on the field, a banner on their website, get "announced" before a game, etc... but I definitely don't think there could be a rule against you taking pictures from a publicly accessible area, selling copies to a parent you know or contacted you, etc... I'd just be polite as others have recommended, but don't back off from taking the pics.

- Ben

[pippin]

I've had that at a few polo events. The club I shoot for "seems" to have an official photographer - but I'm yet to see him at a game, and he supposedly shoots weddings full time, and there's no match photos available for purchase.

I kinda fell into doing it with a friend of mine, so we go together to matches. I focus on one end, he focuses on the other or whatever. Keep my cards, and if they want to buy, they buy... if not, oh well....

[kamari]

well apparently somethin happened yesterday. I got the green light from the athletic director to go ahead and shoot and she gave me the manager's name at the rec center where all the indoor games are played so I went directly over there and spoke with her and informed her of what had just taken place. Well I got an email yesterday evening. Apparently the manager called the athletic director yesterday just to confirm things and the athletic director says "I never told him he could do any photos at the games." Now I'm sittin here like WTF!!?? I was given the athletic director's card WITH the manager's handwritten info on it with the instructions to go and let her know that I had the green light to begin shooting from the athletic director.

So now my question to the TPFers is: being that this rec center is owned by the parks & recreation dept, can this stop me from photographing if parents want my services but the manager is saying that she doesn't want to use my services?

[DEMDeepEllumMusic]

Go above the jerks head to the Parks Dept and see what they say.

Also since it is public property you should be able to shoot anyway, just don't get pushy. Maybe get a windbreaker made with your web address on the back?

[kamari]

Originally Posted by DEMDeepEllumMusic

Go above the jerks head to the Parks Dept and see what they say.

Also since it is public property you should be able to shoot anyway, just don't get pushy. Maybe get a windbreaker made with your web address on the back?

Actually that green light came from the Atlhetic Director at the main office for the Parks Dept. Her assistant was on the phone talking to her explaining who I was and what I was looking to do while I stood there and heard the convo. She gave the rec's manager's info to the assistant to gvie to me along with the instructions to inform her of what i'll be doing.

I like the idea of the windbreaker. I'll jump on that today.