Bride trying to sucker me...???

[akimartymar]

I had this girl call me a loooooong time ago about doing her wedding. She told me she wanted me to do it and wanted to go ahead and sign the contract. Then, she stood me up once. Last week she contacted me again and I told her I was still available that day. Today she writes and asks if she can meet tomorrow to sign a contract. Then right after that she emails back with this:

"Martin I am really sorry to change this again but when
we first started talking about booking you your price
was 450 and now it has gone up to 650 and we just
can't do that. I am sorry but I didn't check your
website agian until after I wrote you the first
e-mail.

Sorry
Candace"

Thing is, this is an excerpt from the email from earlier correspondence:

"Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 19:59:58 -0800 (PST)
> >I will have to check with my mom they will be in
> >Edinburg almost every weekend until May, Baseball
> >season. Incase I have to meet you without her what
>is
> >the deposit amount?? I think we will most likly go
> >with the 550 package."

Now how can she sit there and act like she's just soooo surprised that I've raised my prices?

[akimartymar]

Plus, waiting this late to book a photographer, I really doubt she can find anyone to do it for less than I would. I have about the lowest prices around here because I don't earn a living doing this....yet.

[Twilight Imaging.net]

sheeeeesh! All kinds out there :)

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by akimartymar

I have about the lowest prices around here because I don't earn a living doing this....yet.

I really hate that lame excuse, because it hurts the entire industry.

[brad]

She's complaining about $650?

Move along, forget her.


Oh, and raise your prices, dude. :)

The axiom is that if no one is complaining about your prices, they probably aren't high enough.

[akimartymar]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

I really hate that lame excuse, because it hurts the entire industry.

So what kind of lame excuse is that Don? I'm sorry but I think that my prices are my business. I didn't say that I don't charge much because I just don't care. I have been charging just under some of the lower priced photographers in my area because right now I am more interested in the number of weddings I do instead of how much I make on each. As I do more weddings I keep raising my prices. It's not an excuse, it's a business decision. And I don't see how that hurts you or the entire industry.

[picasso]

I think what he is trying to say is that by charging $650 which is quite a bit less than what the majority of most full and part time wedding photographers charge for even their most basic packages and then making the statement "I have about the lowest prices around here because I don't earn a living doing this....yet." It hurts the people that are trying to do this full time because they do have to earn a living and have more over head etc... and have to compete with people that are doing wedding part time out of their house. It also gives people the wrong idea when they see a "Professional" photographer charging prices that are a third the cost of other photographers. They already think they can take their handy dandy point and click and take just as good pictures as a professional. In my mind its also a little like Walmart coming into a town and lowering their prices and running all the mom and pop shops out of town. You have a primary source of income that is not photography. You could do weddings for $50 dollars just for the fun of it while the guy that does it for a full time living is trying to make it on weddings charging $1800. Not to mention the wrong idea the public gets. Your "Do more charge less" mentality sours it for some full time photographers. I am not trying to tell you your business. I am just getting started myself but, if it were me why sell yourself cheap for qty? If you have another job then your time is of the most importance. Why not charge an avergae going rate, let your quality and service sell your photography and have more time for yourself instead of doing tons of weddings? You also will keep the respect of the photographers that do work full time to keep a roof over their head.

I am also not trying to start an argument with you. I understand its your business and you decide the prices and I respect that. I just understand where he is coming from.


Paul

[PeteQ]

Originally Posted by akimartymar

And I don't see how that hurts you or the entire industry.

Depends on your point of view. What if someone started undercutting telephone technician services because it was their hobby? Then your employer may decide that you really don't need that raise after all because so and so will do it below industry standard. You don't see the harm because it's not your primary income. Listen to the uproar about outsourcing IT jobs (I know, but the analogy fits) but really, aren't those companies just finding a cheaper source? Are they as good? Maybe, maybe not... Sure it sucks that those companies can find someone to do it for under half of what your neighbor used to be paid, but to be honest, your prices are less than half of what most full time photographers (notice I didn't go with PROFESSIONAL) would charge.

Originally Posted by akimartymar

I'm sorry but I think that my prices are my business.

Sure they are, but if you put them out there as the basis for your argument, don't expect them to be ignored when people are commenting on your post.

You are upset she doesn't want to pay your price, and chances are, she probably shopped around and found someone cheaper. Probably someone just having fun on the weekend trying to build a portfolio.

The funny thing is, she'll happilly spend a grand on flowers and they will be gone the day after the wedding, but you know why she'll spend that $1000+? Because there aren't a whole lot of part time florists.....

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by akimartymar

So what kind of lame excuse is that Don? I'm sorry but I think that my prices are my business. I didn't say that I don't charge much because I just don't care. I have been charging just under some of the lower priced photographers in my area because right now I am more interested in the number of weddings I do instead of how much I make on each. As I do more weddings I keep raising my prices. It's not an excuse, it's a business decision. And I don't see how that hurts you or the entire industry.

Your prices are absolutely your business, but I do take issue with your excuse for your prices. It would be the same as me saying I do photography as a living, but nights and weekends I install phone systems for $6.00 an hour because I don't do it full time.... yet.

[akimartymar]

First things first, I'm not upset because she doesn't want to pay my price. I could care less. The point was trying to act like it was news to her that I didn't charge $450 anymore when she had already acknowledged that she knew my price in an earlier email. And as far as my prices, it's not like I'm THAT low if you knew what they get for $650. That's only five hours and 100 4x6 prints. I do have a packages that go up to $2k. But just starting out in this business, if I charged an amount equal to others who have been doing this much longer and have a much more extensive portfolio, no one would ever hire me. And face it, some people just don't have 2 grand to spend on a photographer. And those with large wallets still probably will hire someone more experienced. Most people who hire me are young people who are paying for their weddings themselves. This is not just a hobby to me, it is a secondary source of income and I plan doing this full time once I retire from AT&T. I am a "professional" photographer by definition as I get paid for my services. I'm a member of TPA, have a federal and state tax ID number. I just don't do this as my sole means of income because quite frankly I couldn't make as much or have the benefits I receive with AT&T. And as far as people undercutting in the telephone industry...it happens everyday. All those companies like Birch and Basic Phone all buy our lines for less than cost to resale and make profits. I was simply sharing a story. I'm here to interact and give and get advice just like everyone else. I just don't think certain comments are necessary, especially when all the facts are not known.

[droreyal]

Originally Posted by PeteQ

there aren't a whole lot of part time florists.....

... and now there is a whole lot of coffee on my keyboard ...

[Kathi]

Martin, first, in all honesty the bride probably found someone else who would do it for less, as someone else pointed out. I hear stuff like that all the time. If they found someone for less, I figure it this way - they'll get what they pay for.

Anyone can click a camera but not everyone can express their creativity, control their exposures, control the lighting and shadows, etc., when they push the button. As a professional, you are getting paid because you do know how to do all of that and more. You should be paid for your time - not only for the 5 hours you spent at the wedding, but also for the time that it takes you in post, for the time that you spend on re-orders, for the time that you spend on the album (if there is one), etc. You also have to be sure to charge enough for any costs that you incur as part of her package - i.e. album costs. If you give away the store, you are not only hurting those of us "full-timers" in the industry but also yourself because, in their eyes, brides see that you are "just another photographer" and willing to be nickled and dimed to death. The perceived value of photography, as a profession, takes a nose dive in that bride's eyes.

To give you an idea of our current pricing, we range from $950 to $7250 for a wedding. Honestly, we just about never sell the $950 package. When brides see what they can get for $2250 and $3250, they totally ignore anything less and often go with even larger packages. Our prices are considered "average" for the Houston market - there are some that charge even more than we do. But we try to keep ourselves competitive and keep prices in the "average" range. Yes, we do this for our bread and butter. But that doesn't mean that your work is any less than ours because you have another side job. I'm not sure where Bridge City is, but check out other "full-timers" and "part-timers" in your area. See what kind of prices they are charging. Keep your prices competitive with theirs. There is no reason not to. And plenty of reasons to do it: you'll gain their respect as a fellow photographer in the industry; you'll gain respect in the eyes of the more quality brides; you'll start to fill your portfolio with better quality weddings, not just quantity. Price yourself out of the $650 range and you won't have to deal with as many brides like the one that you were posting about. If she booked you when she first started talking to you so long ago, she would have had plenty of time to make payments on her package for a more decent rate. Think about it.


p.s. not trying to pick on you... just trying to help you build a better business...

[ShaneKislack]

Hey Martin,

Don is right. It does hurt the business. He may not have had the best delivery, but he is none the less right. And you are going through one of the biggest reasons why right now. Once you establish yourself as 'the cheap guy' (for whatever reason) then it's near impossible to raise your prices successfully. Back to the biz...If being 'not full time' means less quality...then that hurts the biz. If it means being cheaper, than it establishes a lower expectation. If you don't believe it, look at the local music scene. People used to get paid to play live music in clubs. Then a 'new' band says "we'll do it cheap because we only do it on weekends". Then the next band says "we'll do it for free just to play". Then the next band says "not only will we do it for free, we'll do the marketing and bring in at least 20 people".

[HotHolly]

Back to your bride -

Someone like that contacted us. We settled on a price and referred her to a friend. The bride then talked the friend down even more. I'm a sucker for a sob story, but most of them are just that - stories.

Expect people to pay your prices and they will. If a bride comes back that didnt book at the lower rate, thats what she gets for waiting. She's lucky you still have the date open. Make sure your price lists say subject to change without notice. And dont be shy pointing it out.

[ShaneKislack]

Just say, "sorry, someone came in today and contracted that date".