Pricing info you say??

[ndsimm]

since we get a lot of requests for this, I'm in the process of gathering as much info as I can on how to properly price your work. The info in this thread is gleaned from previous posts, but feel free to add additional info as it is found...

Pricing Calculators - http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

Other links

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

A complex subject for sure.

I have looked for help in this area before, and here are a couple of links:

Link to NPPA

Washington, DC

Discussion

My Modus Operendi was to charge for my time at a specific day rate.
Add in extras such as sets, special equipment, etc.
Add in post processing times. This can be a major portion of the cost since
products must be tack sharp and the colors need to be matched.

Whatever you do, don't under price yourself on this project and think that later on you can increase your rates once you are established. The customer never seems to understand this concept.

Fotoquote pro software - http://www.fotoquote.com/

Usage Model document

Originally Posted by ShaneKislack

Here is an indespensable paper on the usage model...

http://www.apanational.com/files/pub...nsingModel.pdf

password is APAvisitor2004

on Model Portfolios

Originally Posted by MarcoLaino

Hello Beginning,

I have lots of experience shooting model portfolio for the likes of Elite and Ford.

First question you need to ask: Has the girl been signed with a modeling agency or is she putting together her own portfolio to take to the modeling agencies? That will help determine the type of material you develop.

Second question: Is the girl "fashion" model material or is she "commercial print" model material? Again, that will help you determine the type of photos she needs in her portfolio.

For a model who has not yet been signed by a modeling agency: The modeling agencies like to see photos of the "raw material" - generally photos of the model NOT wearing any makeup or adornment (1) Headshot; (2) Full body shots in bikini (keep it solid in color), no shoes - frontal, sides, back - this helps them get a feel for the potential model's facial features, skin and morphotype. The "model" will not include this in her book if she is signed by an agency, but it is a good intro to an agency because it shows some savvy on her part AND on your part that you know what they are looking for.

Now on to shots that would be included in a model's book. Here you're going to use a makeup artist / hairstylist and some appropriate wardrobe. Caution with makeup artists and hairstylists - they generally, particularly the young ones - want to take a test shoot as an opportunity to show their chops. As a result, they put on way too much makeup, too much color, etc. You really need to keep them on a leash! What you want is really clean, natural-looking makeup, that is, the model is wearing makeup, but looks like she is wearing no, or very little, makeup. Remember, the purpose of the photos is the book is for clients to select models for jobs - they need to see the model, not the makeup and not the clothes. So, less is more, simple is better. Make sure to keep the clothing simple, yet stylish, and make sure it shows the model's morphotype.

In that respect, nice clean "studio" shots on a gray cyclorama or simple outdoors backgrounds work best - nature only, try to keep man-made objects out of the background. You don't want too much clutter in the background distracting from the model.

Now the shots you need:

Headshot, three quarter and full body shots. For commercial print, lots of natural looking smiles and natural poses. For fashion, you can go a little more "fashion" in the posing and expressions, but beware - more inexperienced models want to "overpose" and adopt those cliched "model poses" - remember, these are young girls ..... they'll try to emulate what they see in the mags, but overdo it. Keep it simple, friendly, inviting and natural is your best bet. You'll need at least 4 wardrobe changes and 1 swimsuit.

Now, you may be getting the idea that this is a rather time consuming exercise, and it is. Plan on you hair/makeup person taking at least an hour. Then you'll probably want to allow at least 30 minutes shooting per wardrobe change. Then you'll have to allow time for wardrobe change and hair/makeup touchup/changeup. Then you'll have to allow time to go to different locations, including travel and hauling your gear.

Now, you're looking at at least 3 to 4 hours of your time, and maybe more. Then there's burning your CD's and doing post-production on the photos the model selects.

So, the rate you should charge depends on how you value your time. If you don't mind making $50 per hour, then charge $200 plus $50 per image for retouching. And, the model pays the makeup artist/hairstylist separately - generally $75 to $125. If I were you, I would plan on charging for 4 hours of my time at whatever rate you normally charge.

If you plan on going into this line of business, the model agencies NEVER pay photographers for the photoshoot - this is paid directly by the model. If you produce good results, the agencies will start referring models to you, but you will charge the models directly. And, agencies will always try to get you to shoot for free claiming they need to see how you work with their models and produce photos that they can use - problem is, they are going to send you "model wannabes" - so you're shooting for free, but with "models" with little to no experience - you're not gonna build a good model portfolio for yourself that way. If you're really interested in this line of biz, hire yourself 3 good models, produce your own shoots and than shop your portfolio around to the agencies. But, agree to do ONLY one free test. Thereafter, make sure you're getting paid.

Good luck!

On Negotiation

Originally Posted by boxofrocks

Cradoc, the maker of FotoQuote Pro, sends out an email newsletter--there were some good tips in the one I received today, and thought I'd share them with you guys:


Cradoc's Tip # 11: Negotiating and the Power of Paper

The reason many photographers are afraid to negotiate is they are afraid the client will say no and they'll loose the sale; so many times they sell themselves short.

The trick with negotiation is not to shut the door. The way a price negotiation works is that you work within a price range. This gives you room to negotiate. Using the price range in fotoQuote you begin working within the top price range; you never begin a quote in the bottom range because it leaves you no room for negotiation. In the Coach Tips we provide you with ways to back off if necessary, without looking like you've fallen off.

A contract is an agreement of a negotiation. When you put things in writing it looks official. It's like pricing in a catalog. You never negotiate a price in a catalog; you don't call up Pottery Barn for example and ask, "Can I get a better price on this vase?" That's why companies put things on paper, and that's why in fotoQuote we suggest you fill in a stock quote to send to your client.

When you send a quote stating your terms and conditions and how much the usage is going to be, there is more acceptance over the price and less questioning from your client about whether they can get it for less. The client receives a professionally prepared document and your asking price becomes official.

Large corporations and ad agencies have had the benefit of training from experts in the ways of negotiating. They have lawyers who have drawn up their contracts, stating their terms of business. You have the right as a business owner to have your own terms of business and you have the right when you are handed a contract with terrible terms to say, "I'm sorry that doesn't match my terms of doing business." If you don't have your own terms of business your clients will dictate them to you.

All photography is a negotiation and it really does pay to become a good negotiator. Consider this example. You can increase your income by 20% by getting 20% more jobs and working 20% harder, or you can get 20% more in your negotiations for the jobs that you do. The better a negotiator you are, the more you are going to make for doing less work. So be sure and read the fotoQuote Coach Tips and practice your negotiating skills whenever you can!

I hope that you have found this tip helpful, and thank you again for your support.

Cradoc

BlinkBid software http://www.blinkbid.com/

[ndsimm]

Adding additional info as found...

Originally Posted by MicWayWal

My expenses are not your expenses and my profit is not your profit.
You can find hourly charges anywhere from $50 to $500 in most areas.
Charge what you want, just consider a few things:

1. Time on site is the smallest amount of time you will usually spend on the project.
2. Traveling to the session site is usually always more time than the shooting time, charge for both ways.
3. Uploading files, archiving files, working on a final print file, uploading to the lab or printing it yourself, is easily an hour for even simple jobs.
4. Will you deliver or will they pick up? Charge for deliverly time, there and back if you have to deliver.
5. Product cost is almost nothing compared to the time it takes to produce it. Sometimes I only deliver a file by email.

Also consider the state of your business is in at the moment.
Do you need customers and good customer referals. Don't go too cheap or the next customer will want the same thing.
Charge according to your experience and expertise, enough they know you are a professional.

I charge $275 per hour with at least a two hour minimum plus expenses. But that may not fit your experience or where you conduct business.
Good Luck

[Wes]

This is very good info. I wonder if anyone around here has actual experience with Fotobiz or Fotoquote? Would be nice to get some real-world feedback.

[ShaneKislack]

You need to read this too...

http://www.editorialphoto.com/outrea..._manifesto.asp

[amator]

Great info here, thanks a bunch.

[esdramaqueen]

I hate to even ask a question about pricing, simply because I've read most of the threads and I get the basic gist of them--I've learned a great deal. But, I'm still going to venture out and ask a pricing question and hope that y'all will be gentle with me....I'm a newbie here as well as in the professional world of photography. (It feels odd to even put myself in that catagory.)
I have been asked to throw out a bid for photographing a high school tennis team.

Should I base my sitting fee upon the number of kids to be photographed (due to the different time demands depending on # of kids), or just give a base sitting fee price (do you even charge sitting fees to schools/teams??)?
And, what is an average sitting fee charged to schools/teams--or do I get paid off the top of the actual photo sales?
Does any of this make sense?
Thank you, in advance, for your help. (I will continue to search and read the threads, as well.)

[ndsimm]

what are they going to be using the images for? is this a team shot and individuals or are these action shots? do they want prints or the images on CD? if prints, then what size, and if images on CD, then what size jpeg will you offer? will they be used in publication? the answers to these questions will determine your starting range

[esdramaqueen]

Nathan,
From the team's booster club president's email, I gather that she is asking me to take a team shot and individuals, for the students' personal use.
I also assume she wants the typical school package--prints (various sizes). (I have a website from which they can order and have the prints mailed--my first year, so I am letting someone else handle the printing.) The parents will be able to order the sizes and prints they want, straight from my site. My print prices are set and I figure I will just leave those as is.

My main questions are
a)whether photographers charge schools a sitting fee, and if so,
b)is it usually a flat fee, based on # of kids/time or just simply a flat fee no matter the number of kids.

I want my bid to be competetive with the other photographers' bids, only I have no idea what a typical bid is in the Houston area?
Thanks,
E.

[csa]

I'm not in Houston, but I've done school teams. As a general guideline, most booster clubs will cover a flat fee for the team shot, especially if it is being used for the team poster or program. Ask what their intention is. Many will also pay you to design the poster if you choose. Most do not expect to pay a sitting fee for the individual shots which are usually posed or set up candids. However you can always just call them up and ask. Parents have been buying team packages for their kids for years, so check local pricing on sports packages to be inline with your competition for those.

[flatlander22]

Great info...I had never seen the www.photographersindex.com site before...

[gusrb42]

Great! Thanks

[JMM]

How do you price by the image for product photography? Food for a small business in a small setting for a brochure and a website.

Thanks,
Joyce

[Skutty2Shots]

This is great info, I think every person who considers themselves a photographer should be required to learn this kind of info and what the market standard should be, (including me lol) because when you sell yourself short you are also hurting other photog's. I'm cool with people working out deals or shooting for "art sake" but working for free or close to it because you didn't know better is where I have to sit back and shake my head.

[J Eddington]

Here are a couple to ad to the reading list:

Pricing Guide by Stacy Reeve's Photographer’s Pricing Guide Dallas Wedding Photographer Stacy Reeves | Vintage Modern Wedding Photography

NPPA: Business Practices Toolkit


The Road to profitable Photography - Shakodo

[tikaldogos]

when i moved to an area i went to the school and asked the principal if he wanted to buy my photos for a dollar a piece. (just the ones he wanted not all) and said he could put them on schools website to sell to make money for the sports programs.

he said no. that was fine with me until i was talking to the other parents and the said the school is always asking for free photos from parents.

i was later talking to band teacher (like a week later) he told me as per principal i need consent form from everyone that appears in the photo...

i will never shoot anything for this school for free