Pricing for special project - help !

[CaptainTom]

I usually am one of the regulars to answer pricing questions because of my background in commercial photography.

Now I need some advice.

Some of my images may appear on the wooden fences that surround a major construction project. You know, the ones that usually show an artists rendering of the new building, etc. Mine would be shots of major city attractions.

It is more like they are using my stock photos. I have researched my usual resources, and can't find any help regarding this kind of usage.

I actually have a heads up on how much they are willing to pay, and being greedy, I will stay within these constraints.

I just want to see what others think this sort of usage should cost.

[CaptainTom]

Since I didn't get any advice on the first thread, I'll bump it up, and add a new twist.
The client is now negotiating for ALL rights to the photos, so they can be in their image bank for future use.

Now, how do I price this ??

[HotHolly]

I saw this when you originally posted and didnt think I'd be much help. If you look at it from the opposite perspective - how much would they charge to put up an ad on the fence? That was the 1st thing that came to mind. Ads on barricades and that sort of thing cost a pretty penny. Of course, I'd offer a nicer price if I could leave my studio name on it prominently. Told you I wouldn't be much help!

[CaptainTom]

On the contrary Holly.

You have given me a nice argument when it comes to negotiations.

Thanks

[Bruce M. Morris]

Tom,
Are they asking for exclusive rights to the photos or they just want to make sure that they can use them for more than just the barricades? I have seen somewhere that some of the National photo organizations have pricing guidelines.. Maybe ASMP, PPA??

[CaptainTom]

They want to be able to use the photos for any other uses.
I tried ASMP and PPA but they require membership, etc.

I've actually priced the project already, and am just looking to see if I gave it away, or overcharged.

[ShaneKislack]

If they want unlimited uses...$10K per photo.

To hang on the construction fence only...$500/per photo.

Sounds like a lot but think of it terms of the budget for the construction...probably miniscule.

[adirty1]

depends how big the image is and how many people are going to pass it each day. think of it as bill board. find a bill board around there and call to see what the price would be to rent and ask them how many people pass in a day. there are some stock price finders out there that if you have and idea of how many people see the image you can plug in the numbers and caculate a price.

[HotHolly]

Billboards, barricades, and various types of large signage have a wide price range - at least around here. A billboard (that is a med size in larger cities) runs about $20K per year (in this area). A barricade is anywhere from $300-$1000 per month, depending on where it is. Not quite apples to apples, at least not in this area.

Tom, do you get to leave your studio name on it? That would be some awesome advertising for you.

[CaptainTom]

No photo credits unfortunately.. that would be great, but not available.

[ShaneKislack]

Photo credits do not pay bills. And people do not hire photogs from construction barracades unfortunately.

Not trying to be an ass, but you'd be surprised how much people give away for photo credit. It's a nice thought that it would lead to more biz, but that shouldn't be in anyone's marketing plan.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by ShaneKislack

It's a nice thought that it would lead to more biz, but that shouldn't be in anyone's marketing plan.

I'd have to disagree with that. There are a lot of variables here that would affect what type of compensation would be worthwhile - whether its monetary or not may be worth considering from time to time.

Using something like this as advertising, rather than purchasing advertising, is part of a marketing plan. With that said, it goes back to the variables here. Where is the fence, what's going in behind it, and all that. If its in the ghetto, most likely not a good marketing plan. If its in Disney World, it might be a good swap. (Of course those are illustrative examples...)

Oh, and Im not talking a little byline. Im talking something a little more creative, more noticeable, that works in a similar capacity to an ad. Bylines (aka tiny photo credits) dont accomplish that. And Im gonna shut up now so I dont high-jack the thread.

[ShaneKislack]

I respect your right to disagree, but disagree with your disagreement. I don't know one pro photog, rep/agent...or marketing book...that would consider it a form of desirable payment. Infact, alot of photogs will have it in the contract as standard. If the client refuses then some payment may be acceptable in trade for not having it there.

If you can show me one person that ever hired a photog from a sign they saw at Disney World...I'll shut up.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by ShaneKislack

I respect your right to disagree, but disagree with your disagreement. I don't know one pro photog, rep/agent...or marketing book...that would consider it a form of desirable payment. Infact, alot of photogs will have it in the contract as standard. If the client refuses then some payment may be acceptable in trade for not having it there.

If you can show me one person that ever hired a photog from a sign they saw at Disney World...I'll shut up.

lol! You are gonna make me have to run downtown to grab stuff to get the guys name. There is a photog that looks like a nationally renowned zoo photographer. I saw a very nice brochure when I was at an exhibit downtown, for a zoo in Houston. Looked at another few brochures, and there he is again and again, as the featured photographer in several major cities. I thought he was some hotshot I never heard of. Im not all up to the moment on who's who in that type of photography.

At any rate - each promotional item for the tourist location has a section of text where the photogs name is prominently written and then a little bit about this extraordinary photographer. It looks like they hired a renouned photographer to photograph their animals and they were boasting about it.

Found an article online, a while after that, which said the info on the card was placed there by the photographer. He offered his services to a company that benefited him (in this case a zoo or 5) and in exchange for his services he requested that section be on each promotional piece the zoo produced. His name is everywhere. I only saw it once 5 months ago, in a city over 200 miles away, and I noticed it. He looked very impressive. You can't buy that kind of publicity.

David Ziser does something similar. *Mike* could give you more info on that. This idea isnt new. Info has been printed on it in Rangefinder or PPA mag over the last year. The trick is to do it well, so that it benefits the photog. Otherwise you are just flushing your time and money down the drain.

In Tom's case, he may not need the marketing, and the money may be worth more. A little byline isnt worth it - no one notices those. A 1/5 of the ad where you get to boast about yourself and it looks like an endorsement, that might be.

I'm probably the only nut on here that thinks this way, but why pay for something when you can get it for free? And word-of-mouth is the best kind of referral. That zoo guy has word-of-mouth's spread all over the state - written on a zoo brochure.

And I tried not to hijack your thread, Tom! Michael made me do it!

[adirty1]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

Billboards, barricades, and various types of large signage have a wide price range - at least around here. A billboard (that is a med size in larger cities) runs about $20K per year (in this area). A barricade is anywhere from $300-$1000 per month, depending on where it is. Not quite apples to apples, at least not in this area.

Tom, do you get to leave your studio name on it? That would be some awesome advertising for you.

it's not meant to be apples and apples its meant to illustrate how many people go past that image every day. that way you can then price it out.



http://www.ozimages.com.au/stockpricing/calculator.asp