business?

[Kathi]

Originally Posted by brad

Well, also remember there are a lot of mediocre photographers out there that are making a fortune... and there are a lot of really talented photographers out there who aren't making much at all.

The difference?

Marketing.

Brad, you hit the nail on the head with that one. Robert likes to tell a story sometimes - true story about when he managed stores at Ritz Camera. At the time, he was at Pasadena Town Square and they had a guy come in every Monday with 20-25 rolls of film. The customer spoke very little English, but that didn't affect his business much. He knew enough to stop the ladies at a flea market somewhere in Pasadena and ask them to come to his booth for a picture. Every week, Robert would shake his head at the crap that he printed off these rolls. The man would come back religiously the following Friday and stand at the counter going through roll after roll. Every so often, he would smack a 4x6 down on the counter and scream "That's money!!" until he finished all the rolls. As you put it, rinse and repeat... every Friday and Monday. He may have had the language barrier working against him and his work wasn't something that you or I would write home about, but he made those ladies feel special for a brief moment and marketed himself well doing it. From what I understand, he marketed himself similarly to the guy that stands in the doorway at the grocery store.

Originally Posted by PIC

LOL - thats what stock investors do all the time ... Ever see Madd Money ???

Now many photogs do the same with the paid lecture circuit.

Its the only way many photog can make it now ...

They sell dreams because they cant sell photos.

When people cant make money doing it they turn to getting paid or volunter teaching it.

Yea you need business plan, cards, a port, advertise budget, equip, talent, banking, etc etc ...

But in this day of the GWC photo explosion and the $10 dollar port package from imported 3rd country photogs with 2 days training ... you will need more than good luck. You need 20 - 50x less photographers like yourself. That might fix the biz that went off on the 21st century digi photo explosion. If you do the homework ... you will see the supply of photos are 20 x the demand.

In short ... Get Real - the biz is not what it was and the days of high paid or even paid photogs are gone.

You are no different than thousands and thousands trying to do the same thing and over 90% are failing at it today.

EL

Dude, I can only say that I feel sorry for you. Sorry because you have such a sour look on life. Hi-paid photography is a reality for a lot of people, you just haven't figured out how to get yourself there. You can't put an ad in a magazine, for example, and expect people to call just because you have 1 ad. Yes, that ad will help, but you also have to get your name out there anywhere else that you can go. Does it take a lot of work? Hell yeah - we feel like we are working 24/7 sometimes. Does it take some sacrifice? Hell yeah - we wish there were more hours in the day just to slow down and be mom & dad sometimes even. But to us, it is worth it and it is paying off.

Originally Posted by mikeN80

well I have been around here for a while and now I am wondering what is necessary to start making money in photography? do I have to have business cards and a web site before I start trying to find work? Oh I want to get into portrait photography both in a studio and outdoors or on location, but until I get the money I will probably have to rent a studio when necessary.

So please let me know what I need to get started. I already have profiles at model mayham and one talent source, but that doesn't seem to be working. I guess I am looking for some guidlines.

thanks
Mike

If you don't already subscribe to Ed Pierce's Photo Vision DVD series, I highly recommend it. Lots of the "big boys" - Sandy Puc, Doug Box, Bleu Cotton, Kathleen and Jeff Hawkins, Vickie Taufer, Michelle Celentano, Dave Junion, to name a few - all give regular video "articles" to the series that are packed full of marketing tips, lighting, studio walk-throughs, you name it. Kathleen Hawkins also has several awesome books out there - mostly through Marathon Press - that you can purchase telling all the ins and outs of marketing your business. We have followed her for years and use a lot of her suggestions.

Do I recommend business cards? Absolutely! You need to leave a card with your tip every time you go out to eat. You need to hand your cards to your barber - you might even ask him if you can leave a business card holder on his counter with your cards. We do. If you want to shoot portraits of family and children, you might think about leaving a business card holder full of cards at every shop that moms shop at within 5 miles of your home or studio - nail salons, ice cream shops, maternity shops, doctors offices, toy stores, restaurants... you get the idea. Some of the bigger chains won't allow it, but a lot of your smaller businesses don't mind. We recently got 250 double-sided full-color, UV coated, cards from White House Custom Color (WHCC) for $38. For the excellent quality that we received, we got an excellent deal! In the past, we have made a 4x7 of 4 business cards and had our lab print it as 4x7 sheets for us to cut down to the wallet sized cards later. 17cents/4x7 - again, cards don't have to be expensive. You want to make sure they have a picture that you created on them though - you are a photographer, act like it! Show people what you do from the first impression and make it a lasting impression with an outstanding image.

Do I recommend a website? Absolutely! With today's technology, people want to see what you can do for them before they spend the time and gas to come see you. As Brad pointed out, websites do not have to be expensive. If you have someone make it for you, it can cost you your first born child if you aren't careful. But you can make your own website for as little as $4/mo through GoDaddy.com. We reciprocal link ourselves to a LOT of other websites out there - people see our link somewhere else and click on it to see more of what we have on our own website. We keep samples of everything we do on our websites for new clients to check us out. We also put online proofing of our images for brides/families to share their images with family and friends - we get a lot of orders from the family and friends that want prints for themselves.

Portfolio sites, like ModelMayhem.com, OneModelPlace.com, and even MySpace.com, can also make you money if you market it right. Yes, you will have a lot of "models" hit you up for free stuff but if you show quality work in your port, you will also get a lot of paying models wanting to build up their ports. We have 2-3 models a week that come in, paying, for a portfolio session. As you get more practice and your work gets better, your ports need to reflect that. You also need to make sure that you are updating your ports - whether with information about upcoming specials or with new images - weekly. That keeps you in front of people. OMP, for instance, sends out emails to everyone in your area every time you change your page on their site. That keeps people seeing your work and keeps your name in front of them.

[dtscds]

Originally Posted by PIC

LOL - thats what stock investors do all the time ... Ever see Madd Money ???

<<snip>>

But in this day of the GWC photo explosion and the $10 dollar port package from imported 3rd country photogs with 2 days training ... you will need more than good luck. You need 20 - 50x less photographers like yourself. That might fix the biz that went off on the 21st century digi photo explosion. If you do the homework ... you will see the supply of photos are 20 x the demand.

In short ... Get Real - the biz is not what it was and the days of high paid or even paid photogs are gone.

You are no different than thousands and thousands trying to do the same thing and over 90% are failing at it today.

Photography AS A BUSINESS is no different from any other business. Trying to make a go of it is going to be hard. Try opening a restaurant--about 2/3rds fail within the first 3 years. Want to try your hand at a clothing shop? You want a real crapshoot--try being a musician!

BUT!, even with all the failures, there are plenty of successes. We are just at the very infancy of our shot at it. Chances of success? Statistically slim. But we're giving it a go.

Sure you need talent and some lucky breaks, but isn't it amazing how the people that hustle seem to be the ones with all the luck? My favorite pro golfer has always been Lee Trevino. He always said that there were lots of guys on the tour that had much more talent than he did, but there wasn't anyone on tour that could outwork him.

90% may be failing, but that means 10% are making it. Find one of those 10% and follow their lead. Let the pessimists focus on the 90%.

[PhotoByLeal]

Originally Posted by Aric C. Hoek

Making money and saving money. Two different things.

So… you want to do portraits. If I were to start all over again, but this time starting as a portrait photographer. If I knew then what I know now kind of thing.

You first need to ask yourself… what kind of money do you want to make and how many images do you want to shoot. Do you want to do high end portraiture or high volume? Why not both?

ARIC,



I LOVED your essay!!
It left me SPEECHLESS!
I SAW the LIGHT!

Thank you, I think you OPEN a lot of peoples EYES encluding a neewB!

Now I know who to go to for advice, just kidding, if there is a small fee, I am willing to PAY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later,
TxmexNitro - Angel

[PhotoByLeal]

Originally Posted by brad

Aric said it well.. and as Tom said, I jumped off a cliff, but he left out that I have a parachute that has made that descent a little slower... getting close enough to the bottom to see a rocky river with lots of whitewater, though...


(Wow, didn't mean to ramble on so long.)

Brad,

I always like to READ your advice on this forum.

I believe people like you, Aric and other great people on this forum are AWESOME, for sharing your Photography experience with US!!!

That is more than MONEY can ever buy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Canon 30D $ 1100
Canon 16-35 II $ 1600
TPF Membership $ 25.00
Advice from TPF Members $ PRICELESS $
TOTAL = $ GREAT PRICE $

Now I know who to go to for advice, just kidding, if there is a small fee, I am willing to PAY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later,
TxmexNitro - Angel

[MRCPix]

Kathi thank you for your response.
CD I agree with what you said about attaching myself to one of the 10% and let someone else focus on the 90% that don't make it.

I want to take a moment and thank everyone and yes I am taking notes and I am working on a business name then a logo and then I will get a domain name and business cards then get a web site started.

this is a really great place to learn and grow.

[bondarnes]

I am resurrecting this thread because on another thread we started discussing a TPF marketing group and some of the posters on this thread might have an interest in it: http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...d=1#post526455