Please. I need help starting a Senior Division.

[Aric C. Hoek]

Well, after many meetings we have decided to start building a senior division to our studio, and do I have a ton of questions. We already have our own ideas as to what the answers might be, but we would really like to hear it from others out there that have been doing it for a while.

Please feel free to answer one or all of the questions, or just tell me I am crazy. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1. How do you generate a list of seniors from a specific school or region? Or should I be creating lists of sophomores and Juniors?
2. When does senior season start and end? Why?
3. What is your average sale per senior session?
4. What are your top selling products in a senior session?
5. What policies do you set with a senior session?
6. Do you have a pre session consultation to discuss what the subject wants?
7. Do you work on weekends?
8. Will seniors do sessions during the week?
9. What is the cut off age for photographing an individual without a parent present?
10. Do you sell your prints in packages or A La Care? Why?
11. How long does a senior session take?
12. Do you allow the senior to bring in multiple changes of clothes? Do you charge more for this?
13. With a wedding I know that my client knows that if their check bounces I wont show up. What recourse do you have if a senior's check bounces?
14. How do you handle returns or refunds of senior prints? What are your policies?
15. What type of marketing programs and ideas are there?
16. I have often heard that it is good to have a liaison or school rep. What does this mean? How does this work?
17. How long do you keep senior photos on file for?
18. Do you make an online gallery for senior sessions? If so, do you wait until they have made a print purchase to post the gallery?

I know that I have put up a lot of questions, but I just want to have all of my policies in place before I begin to produce any product.

Thank you so much for any help you can give. Ok. I am off to shoot a wedding. I will be back on tonight.

I hope that we can create a thread that everyone can benefit from. Thanks!

[picasso]

Aric,

If you are still looking into this check out www.pro4um.com I noticed you got no replies but I think you will get all of these questions plus more answered if you decide to join. It is expensive but worth it IMO. I know I have sent you this site before so I promise I won't bug you with it again. I also don't work for them at all but just think its a great resource.

Paul

[bondarnes]

Aric,

Sorry I missed this post when it first came up. We do about 250 seniors a year. Let me get my numbers together and get back with you tonight.

[tc82742]

years ago, i worked for a photographer that did studio senior shots. now, working for myself, i am just now getting back into seniors. i think studio vs. on location sessions should be treated differently. but, i will give some feedback on them..

Please. I need help starting a Senior Division. - 08-11-2007, 11:32 AM

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Well, after many meetings we have decided to start building a senior division to our studio, and do I have a ton of questions. We already have our own ideas as to what the answers might be, but we would really like to hear it from others out there that have been doing it for a while.

Please feel free to answer one or all of the questions, or just tell me I am crazy. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1. How do you generate a list of seniors from a specific school or region? Or should I be creating lists of sophomores and Juniors? you can call the school, they usually charge you a few dollars for the list. but they have to supply it to everyone if they supply it to one person.
2. When does senior season start and end? Why? we used to cold call seniors starting on the first day of school. if they didnt have theirs done during the summer, we would send them an information packet.
3. What is your average sale per senior session?
4. What are your top selling products in a senior session?wallets. they all want to give out wallets.. especially in their announcements.
5. What policies do you set with a senior session?in studio, there wasnt a set policy. but on my own, i require someone over the age of 18 to be present with them.. just because. even if they are over 18, i want a second person there.
6. Do you have a pre session consultation to discuss what the subject wants?so far, i have just spoken over the phone with mom or the senior
7. Do you work on weekends?in studio, we did during the week.. on my own, i work on weekends with them.
8. Will seniors do sessions during the week?when i worked for the studio, yes. often. as soon as school was out. sometimes even during the day, they took the day off from school to do it.
9. What is the cut off age for photographing an individual without a parent present?some friends are 18 or older. having friends with them make them MUCH more relaxed, and will make them laugh for true smiles.. rather than the cheezed smiles. so, if they bring a friend.. that is cool. otherwise, someone over 18 needs to be there.
10. Do you sell your prints in packages or A La Care? Why?i do both. parents want to know how much it is going to cost.. so pkgs work. al a carte, you can easily sell more wallets or a canvas.
11. How long does a senior session take? girls take longer than boys. about an hour though, if there are multiple clothing changes. if not, you can knock it out in 30 minutes if they warm up early.
12. Do you allow the senior to bring in multiple changes of clothes? Do you charge more for this?no, i dont. it is expected for seniors. they like to change clothes.
13. With a wedding I know that my client knows that if their check bounces I wont show up. What recourse do you have if a senior's check bounces?dont have a policy in place, but if it bounced, and they didnt take care of it prior to the shoot, i wouldnt do it.
14. How do you handle returns or refunds of senior prints? What are your policies?
15. What type of marketing programs and ideas are there?
16. I have often heard that it is good to have a liaison or school rep. What does this mean? How does this work?a school rep is generally a hip student.. cheerleader, football/baseball player, someone with a lot of contacts. you do their session, offering free wallets, or a wall print for mom/dad in exchange for them handing out personalized rep cards at school advertising your biz. i have also heard of photographers doing a session for a group of friends, maybe the whole cheer squad, and having shirts made wiht your logo for them to wear on the day they pass them out. hype up the exposure for you.
17. How long do you keep senior photos on file for? the same as any other client. one year.
18. Do you make an online gallery for senior sessions? If so, do you wait until they have made a print purchase if you make an online gallery, have a policy set in place for myspace. they are going to steal them off your gallery by doing a print screen, or right click them to put up on myspace. i allow this, as long as my logo is present. just more exposure for you.

hope this helps some.

[LoungeLizard]

Tasha, that is some great information. I wouldn't consider my effort a "division", but I am trying to attract some senior sessions this school year.

I was not aware of your answer to #1. Care to expand on that?

[tc82742]

i havent purchased the list.
but the photographer i worked for purchased it each year from all three district high schools around us. apparently many vendors like to market seniors, military, jewelers, the jacket makers, etc. and if they allowed the list to be public to one person, they had to be fair to all vendors. call the admin office, ask the policy for where you are. i bet it is still in place though, because that photographer is still reeling in the seniors.. im sure he is still getting their info from the schools.
so far, my seniors have all been referrals though, since i am not directly marketing them.

[smdebnam]

I work for a school district. All requests for data whether employee or student related are submitted to our Public Information Department. Once approved, the request is then sent from our Public Information office to our Technology Dept who then pulls the data as requested.

For this request I would assume that you would ask for an excel spreadsheet containing all student names, addresses, and campus, within a certain grade range (or graduating year) for a specific range of schools (or all schools depends on the size of the District).

My comment above regarding "approving" the request only applies to approving specific data requested, meaning, when we are asked for personal infromation such as SSN's, we remove that from the request that is sent to technology. Otherwise, it's really all open records....

[HotHolly]

I would have directed you to Don. Wow - he was incredibly helpful! Chat him up all you can.

[adirty1]

we started using a rep last year and it makes a huge difference. we do it on a points system. it just depends on how many clients book using the reps number. for 2 clients the rep gets wallets and a larger print. for 4 clients you get a second shoot and for 6 clients you get your choice of a shoot or prints or MUA. The free MUA goes over big. The trick is that you have to make sure the reps know that a client has to book and pay for setting.

wallets are huge sellers and parents do like the package. Normally we do 5x7, 8x10, and wallets. normally the students will buy more wallets. we have just gone to doing a credit for prints per package or units just depends on how you look at it.

[Aric C. Hoek]

Thank you all for your help. I am sorry that I have been away from the forum for a while. Got kind of busy.

will read all the replys now.

[bondarnes]

Just got back from an assignment. I will try to answer your questions as I enjoy this glass of Merlot

Well, after many meetings we have decided to start building a senior division to our studio, and do I have a ton of questions. We already have our own ideas as to what the answers might be, but we would really like to hear it from others out there that have been doing it for a while.

Please feel free to answer one or all of the questions, or just tell me I am crazy. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1. How do you generate a list of seniors from a specific school or region? Or should I be creating lists of sophomores and Juniors?
Every School district is different. In the district where my studio is located I buy the list on a disc from the district administration office for all three high schools for about $8.00. It will be the most accurate however the students can opt out of having their information on that list. There are also list companies such as American Student List that will sell you senior names and addresses. They cost more and are only about 85% accurate. I used to buy the drivers license list by birthdates. It was fairly accurate except for students a year ahead or a year behind.

2. When does senior season start and end? Why?
For us the senior season begins in early May while they are still juniors and runs until they leave for college. We photograph at least half of our seniors during the summer. So far this summer I have photographed over 150 members of the class of 2008.

3. What is your average sale per senior session?
Last year we only photographed 189 sessions with an average order of $436.18
Our Senior Salute is an invitational session in June & July. $388.32 avg. on 137 sessions.
Our Half Price Session in Aug. & Sept. $659.70 avg. on 10 sessions.
Our Super Senior Letter in Jan. & Feb. $528.57 avg. on 14 sessions
Seniors with no promotion. $566.23 avg. on 27 sessions.

4. What are your top selling products in a senior session?
We sell a lot of framed 6 image collages containing one 11X14 and five originals in a mat.

5. What policies do you set with a senior session?
We have three rules: 1. They must have fun. 2. I have to listen to their music. 3. They get to select sets and poses for their session.

6. Do you have a pre session consultation to discuss what the subject wants?
Yes, but it is usually with the mom on the phone. We invite them to come in, but most just do it on the phone. We talk about interests and hobbies, school activities that have a uniform, pets, wheels, etc.

7. Do you work on weekends?
We will do a senior session on a Saturday, but the session fee is more and there is a hefty minimum order. Most will find another time and for those that don't I don't mind coming in. If they no-show the lose their pre-paid session fee and they can't have another Saturday session at any price.

8. Will seniors do sessions during the week?
Yes, especially during the summer. I will photograph as many as eight sessions a day during June and July. Many get out of school at noon and some will come in after school.

9. What is the cut off age for photographing an individual without a parent present?
We don't have a cut off age. About 80% of our seniors come with a parent. I usually have an assistant in the camera room with me. It has never been a problem.

10. Do you sell your prints in packages or A La Care? Why?
We offer both, but most will go with a package. Our packages do not include wallets. They all want wallets so why would I put those in a package?

11. How long does a senior session take?
We schedule two hours for a senior session and we overlap them. Sometimes the girls go a little over that time. I have two changing rooms so during our busy times I will be photographing one while the other one is changing.

12. Do you allow the senior to bring in multiple changes of clothes? Do you charge more for this?
Our deluxe session includes up to five outfits and we encourage clothing changes. Honestly we don't even mention anything but our deluxe session and it is the only session we ever discount. When I was first getting started an old photographer told me, "You can't sell apples out of an empty wagon. They all want lots of choices and variety."

13. With a wedding I know that my client knows that if their check bounces I wont show up. What recourse do you have if a senior's check bounces?
Our senior sessions are pre-paid and usually with a credit card over the phone. We have very few checks bounce and those are usually from off site assignments like sports teams, dance studios, or schools.

14. How do you handle returns or refunds of senior prints? What are your policies?
I'm not sure what you are asking. If you are talking about originals (proofs) we do all of our sales appointments by projection so there are no originals to return. The only thing they can take with them are thumbnails 12 up on 8.5X11 printed on our unprofiled Xerox printer.

15. What type of marketing programs and ideas are there?
That's a two day seminar. Most of our marketing is done by direct mail.

16. I have often heard that it is good to have a liaison or school rep. What does this mean? How does this work?
We have never used an "Ambassador program" because we do our "Senior Salute". I know a lot of studios do quite well with senior reps. The main thing I would suggest if you do one is to keep it simple. Don't get bogged down in a lot of rules and record keeping.

17. How long do you keep senior photos on file for?
I have negatives from 1978. I'm not positive I could print from them though. I would probably keep image files for no more than five years if I were starting out now.

18. Do you make an online gallery for senior sessions? If so, do you wait until they have made a print purchase to post the gallery?
I only put senior images online if they want to pay a fee to do so. We tried it and people would view them, but we could not track any additional sales or any new sessions to the fact that the images were online. I think it was an ego trip for the senior, but it just took money out of my pocket. When they ask us to put them online we tell them we would love to. It is only $25.00 for 30 days, $40.00 for 90 days, or $100.00 for all year.

I know that I have put up a lot of questions, but I just want to have all of my policies in place before I begin to produce any product.

Thank you so much for any help you can give. Ok. I am off to shoot a wedding. I will be back on tonight.

I hope that we can create a thread that everyone can benefit from. Thanks!

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by picasso

Aric,

If you are still looking into this check out www.pro4um.com I noticed you got no replies but I think you will get all of these questions plus more answered if you decide to join. It is expensive but worth it IMO. I know I have sent you this site before so I promise I won't bug you with it again. I also don't work for them at all but just think its a great resource.

Paul

I agree with Paul. This is a good resource. They have a free 30 day try out. For that price you can't lose. You won't even need to ask your questions just start reading the senior threads.

[FreshPhotography]

Originally Posted by adirty1

we started using a rep last year and it makes a huge difference. we do it on a points system. it just depends on how many clients book using the reps number. for 2 clients the rep gets wallets and a larger print. for 4 clients you get a second shoot and for 6 clients you get your choice of a shoot or prints or MUA. The free MUA goes over big. The trick is that you have to make sure the reps know that a client has to book and pay for setting.

What is an MUA?

Thank you to everyone for the GREAT information! I'm printing this out and holding on to it so I can start planning for the future!

[adirty1]

make up and hair artist

[adirty1]

don. great info. would love to know what your salute contains. I love the idea of not doing wallets with a package. what's the going rate for wallets?

do you do a unit price?