Marketing Woes

[laawaaris]

So I've had my first potential direct customers. I took photos at a ballet and showed the photos of one of the lead dancers to her mom. The mom loved the photos and asked me to purchase 14 JPEG files along with some prints.

I have been thinking a lot and talking to other photographers, and feel that the JPEG is my prized possession. So I decided to value the JPEGs higher than I normally do and offered it to her at $35 per JPEG. I added on some cost for the prints and a little bit for the labor I performed and sent her a quote - of almost $565.

I sent her a quote a few days ago and have not heard anything back from her. We were on good terms when we were discussing the deal, but since I showed her the quote there has been silence. I feel like she may have not expected to see such a high price.

Anyhow, I listed my prices to you guys to ask openly and honestly if you feel the cost is justified. The photos can be viewed online at http://www.trick-photography.com/qtm/gabby to match the price to the actual quality of photos.

I only have the mom's email address and feel that I should have talked with her over the phone to build rapport. Also I never expressly communicated that JPEGs are higher price than prints, most likely because this is my first potential sale so I am learning, but I feel that would have helped.

So if the price is justified, what should I do from here? My loose plan is to email next week and ask her if she has reviewed the quotation and what her thoughts are. I will also ask to try and get her phone number, but if she does not give that to me I suppose I will have to ask her over email what her concerns may be.

[bondarnes]

I actually think that your price is too low. Your images are certainly worth more than that. I would send another e-mail right away and give her your phone number and the best time for her to call you. You might want to have another price ready if she balks at your quote. Something like "Since you ordered from several images, if we can wrap this up today, I will finalize your order for only $XXX.00.

[laawaaris]

thanks for the help don ... yes i know the price is too low, but it is much, much better than me giving the JPEGs for free - which is what I used to do ...

anyhow I emailed her and asked her to call me in the afternoon ... i was very direct in the email (maybe too direct), but for some reason I did not get a call or email back from her ..

i'm uncertain at this point what to do, but i am thinking of sending another (final) email just asking her openly and honestly if she has any concerns, if she is thinking about something or if she is just not interested at all

i got back a print of one of the ballet photos today for my personal portfolio - and man i can't take my eyes off it !!!

[rph]

I, like you, often wonder what happens to people when they ask for something and you provide the parameters under which you'll provide it, then you don't ever hear back from them.

I used to obsess over it. I'd go back time and time again trying to figure out where things got off track. At the time, it was important to me, because it helped me understand the situation (closure) and it helped me learn to do it better.

However, doing that flew in the face of training and advice of people much more experienced in sales, which is what this reallly is.

Their advice, every time, was to "make the pitch" / "ask for the business" / "name the price"...and then shut up...

According to them, the first person to speak "lost the game". Their experience was that the person on the other side of the offer was considering it. If they had objections, they'd come up. If they didn't, they'd eventually decide that and agree to the deal.

(As an aside, their advice was to sweep the objection to the side and return to the pitch, then continue to do so until the objection came up three times. Then they would address it.)

To be honest, I didn't think much of sales at the time. I hated that work and still do. However, much of what we do in everyday life is a "sale" of some type or another. Everything from how we dress, speak, ask a girl out, and get agreement from others for the most basic decisions is a "sale" to them.

As I've gotten older, I've begun to see their point more than I did in the past. I don't follow all the principles or consider it doctrine, but I pay attention and use the tools when necessary. I see it more as "developed cooperation".

This being the case, when I encounter a situation like yours, I try my best to take their advice. I try to shut up.

As they said, it's better to move on and leave them to continue considering. Move to the next customer or develop the business to the degree that you've got more. They will come around later...or they won't.

So far as learning the "why" of it. If I ask and they don't tell, I understand that it may be for any number of reasons, but I stop asking. I'll learn from the next one...

When I first started shooting for myself, during and after college, it was a shoot to eat environment. Big potential sales that were in limbo would drive me nuts. Over time, though, I reached the point that I took the advice and just kept going.

With one of the potential clients, where there was a huge potential for business and who had been extremely unsuccessful with photographers in the past for reasons my style would perfectly address, everything looked great. Then they dropped off the map. I reached out to them several times and got nothing in response. It frustrated me, but I finally stepped away and worked on the next one.

Almost two years later, I got a call from them, out of the blue. They were on fire and ready to get going immediately. I actually had to move other (more patient) clients around to fit them in. That turned into one of my most lucrative contacts. It probably still would have been if I hadn't moved to another career that took me out of the area.

After several shoots, I was talking to the client and learned what happened. She had been in the midst of a divorce when we met, which turned ugly. She had decided to focus on that and had never responded to my followups because she was embarrassed about it and felt bad for putting me off. It was all about her situation and had nothing to do with me.

If I had continued to try to call her and work out the why or offer alternatives, I would have been seen as an interfering distraction. I also would have been taken lightly as a professional, as she later explained. She told me that when she saw my work, she knew I'd cost more than the others, but she knew I'd be worth it. So, while she was going through all of her personal stuff, she felt confident that I'd still be in business when she came back to me, simply because I "didn't appear desperate" and that must mean that I was successful. In her mind, when I stayed quiet, she assumed I was too busy to keep coming back to her, which reinforced her perception of value.

I know this is a long post and I'm sorry for that, but I hope it helps. I don't know everything and am painfully aware of it, but it sounded like some of this might have some potential use to you.

I hope it all works out. Those pictures are very nice and I think they're well worth the price.

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by laawaaris

i'm uncertain at this point what to do, but i am thinking of sending another (final) email just asking her openly and honestly if she has any concerns, if she is thinking about something or if she is just not interested at all

Sometimes I have to just ask the client "Is that it? Are we done?", but in a polite way. Something like "Since you have not responded to my e-mails I can only assume that you are no longer interested in having images of your daughter. Unless I hear back from you I must assume that our business is concluded." And then just move on.

I took a very nice order last week from a senior session I did almost two years ago. It turned out that dad had lost his job and had to take temporary work for a while and they only spent money on the necessities until he got permanent work again. We had asked her if she wanted us to keep reminding her to order and she had told us "yes" So we called her every two or three months just to touch base. If she had said "no" then we would have dropped it.

[HotHolly]

More than likely, she didn't expect the price to be so high. Many people (around here anyway) do not seem to understand what having the digital file means - that they can print what ever they want as many times as they want. If she just wants a few mementos - prints are a better option for her.

It is always better to do sales in person, b/c you can see what is happening to the client when they hear the price. If you passed their price point completely, you lost the sale.

Go to Starbucks to meet clients, if you have to. Figure out what they want, how much they can spend, and then sell them what they need. I have never gotten sales to work out smoothly via email. Too much communication is totally lost from not seeing each other. Invite her to call you and say you have a few other options that start at $X so if money is the issue, she will still call. (I'm assuming print prices for a 5x7 are less than the total you quoted her before). You also may want to quote per image and let her do the math. It might seem like a more manageable number.

[laawaaris]

hey guys, thanks so much for the advice (the biz talk forum is more relevant than ever since i'm starting to do little slices of business as a photographer now)

you're right holly, i should have definitely met her - or at least got her on the phone to do an initial introduction, gauge her real needs and talk about the details

anyhow, i think what i will do is just email her one more time and tell her that if cost is an issue then i have some other alternatives and that she may call if she wants to discuss - the alternatives being print files only rather than jpegs

if i don't hear back after that, i will assume that for whatever reason right now is not the right time for her ...

[PhotoByLeal]

Bobby,

What did you shot with and what lens?

Thanks,
A

[laawaaris]

this ballerina was shot with my 70-200 nikon lens on a d200 ... i primarily hovered around ISO 640 and maxed at ISO 800 sticking to f/2.8 or 3.3 and 1/90 or 1/60 of a second ... the camera image was kind of dark so i brought the light up later in post processing

i got some complaints that my camera was loud when i was shooting from the back of the theater, so i climbed up high and shot everybody from the light room in the top of the theater ... such an awesome place to shoot and gave some great angles - but man was it hot ... i was sweating like crazy and had to sandwich myself between 2 huge hot lights the entire time i was up there ...

[zepp]

Originally Posted by laawaaris

this ballerina was shot with my 70-200 nikon lens on a d200 ... i primarily hovered around ISO 640 and maxed at ISO 800 sticking to f/2.8 or 3.3 and 1/90 or 1/60 of a second ... the camera image was kind of dark so i brought the light up later in post processing

i got some complaints that my camera was loud when i was shooting from the back of the theater, so i climbed up high and shot everybody from the light room in the top of the theater ... such an awesome place to shoot and gave some great angles - but man was it hot ... i was sweating like crazy and had to sandwich myself between 2 huge hot lights the entire time i was up there ...

Stafford Centre

[robert t]

It never fails, When you stop sharing images for free and start selling people get that deer in the headlights look. They just can't see how you can charge so much. It even applies to prints. I match my sports print sales cost to those of some other sites and still they make the comment, "well they are only 20 cents at Walgreen's". They only consider what their cost is, they never consider that if they could shoot the images then they wouldn't be asking you for them. Sometimes the folks that love your work aren't willing to spend the money on it.

[laawaaris]

zepp - i'm not sure why you wrote the words "Stafford Centre" , but the ballet took place at the Jewish Community Center on S. Braeswood in the Meyerland area

robert - very nice point, i think my major problem was that i never really had a consultation with the mother over the phone or in person ... i feel i could have used that to build a rapport and really get to know what the mother wanted ... i met her briefly at the ballet for 2 seconds and since then have only been talking to her over email ... i remember now that she mentioned over email many times that she was still deciding what she wanted, so i know i made a big mistake by not jumping in and calling for some sort of "meeting" ...

for me it has been a learning experience, something to take to the next potential client

[robert t]

True, face to face or phone. Don, Paul and Holly hit it. That is why I love this forum, best knowledge base in Texas.

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by robert t

I match my sports print sales cost to those of some other sites and still they make the comment, "well they are only 20 cents at Walgreen's". They only consider what their cost is,

You can always respond with "You are right the paper only costs about twenty cents, the rest of my price is for the image on the paper. And the years of study it took to learn how to capture that image."

[zepp]

Originally Posted by laawaaris

zepp - i'm not sure why you wrote the words "Stafford Centre" , but the ballet took place at the Jewish Community Center on S. Braeswood in the Meyerland area

Bad guess by me I suppose. The flooring looks exactly like the Stafford Centre's floor.