sitting fee

[esanchez]

I only do photos for family and friends. And I have been looking around at local photographer to see what they charge and I see "sitting fee" thrown around alot. What does the sitting fee suppose to cover???

[Ahh!]

Sitting fees attempt to cover basic costs if they do not buy anything. Your time behind the camera is worth something. So is your equipment, your computer, your software, your time behind the computer screen PP'ing the image(s). Your talent, creativity, and expertise is worth something.

Now, many photogs wave or credit their sitting fees against what prints are purchased. Obviously, to be competitive, the whole equation and average order patterns factor into their pricing...

I've done some looking and anywhere from $40-150 sitting fees are out there...even more depending on a great many things. But I can't authoritatively give you any real data beyond that to help you with the whole equation to get you to what any given photog makes per year after expenses. Remember - photogs need to feed themselves and their families!

[HotHolly]

Sitting fees need to cover your cost, plus some - and are all over the board. Pay close attention to Sears. You do not want to be cheaper than them - you'll loose money. They operate in bulk and are charing $14.99 for a 15 min session. Many sears have multiple rooms, so assuming they are only using 1 room, they want $59.96 per hour, per room. And that is with the client going to them - no location fees, set up, or traveling.

Since most photographers don't operate in bulk, they have to charge more to cover cost. Charging $20 for a sitting fee, won't cover it. And many photogs spend WAY more than 15 minutes with the client and then we go back and process the images, which is more time.

There is a lot more to charging than sitting fees. You want to construct everything so that you meet a certain price point per session - includes sitting fees, print sales, and what have you. Different types of sessions will reach different price goals. The annual clients will spend more money per session than those returning every month, however the monthly client may yield higher returns annually.

That was over kill to your answer. The sitting fee is usually tied into how much money you want to take in per session.

[Aric C. Hoek]

We charge 150 for a studio session, and 300 to go on location.

[esanchez]

Not over kill at all the more info the better and I apreciate it. OK I got I just wasn't sure what was being covered in the sitting fee, but you guys made it clear. And it just depends on your target profit so you don't loose money per shoot correct??

Originally Posted by HotHolly

Sitting fees need to cover your cost, plus some - and are all over the board. Pay close attention to Sears. You do not want to be cheaper than them - you'll loose money. They operate in bulk and are charing $14.99 for a 15 min session. Many sears have multiple rooms, so assuming they are only using 1 room, they want $59.96 per hour, per room. And that is with the client going to them - no location fees, set up, or traveling.

Since most photographers don't operate in bulk, they have to charge more to cover cost. Charging $20 for a sitting fee, won't cover it. And many photogs spend WAY more than 15 minutes with the client and then we go back and process the images, which is more time.

There is a lot more to charging than sitting fees. You want to construct everything so that you meet a certain price point per session - includes sitting fees, print sales, and what have you. Different types of sessions will reach different price goals. The annual clients will spend more money per session than those returning every month, however the monthly client may yield higher returns annually.

That was over kill to your answer. The sitting fee is usually tied into how much money you want to take in per session.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by esanchez

Not over kill at all the more info the better and I apreciate it. OK I got I just wasn't sure what was being covered in the sitting fee, but you guys made it clear. And it just depends on your target profit so you don't loose money per shoot correct??

For us, yeah. The goal is always to make money. The sitting fee allows us to cover the time involved in creating the images (shoot and PP) without any obligation on the clients part to buy. Rolling part of the sitting fee into a print credit is common. We found that shot us in the foot, so we don't offer print credits with the sessions. Our clients arent big with coupons or discounts. Not their thing.

Our session fee for a 1-hour session is $275. Totally sales from that session is grossing around $1600. So, if we discount stuff or offer packages - it still has to hit that total for us.

If the session is broken up and shorter - it still averages $275 per hour for the sitting fee. We usually take more time on bridals and newborn shoots - so those sessions are priced higher. We also have a mini session - that's 3 proofs with the time allotment of 20 mins or less. The monthly clients go after the mini. Their gross sales are lower, but they come back more often. Annually, that type of client grosses more than the annual client.

That's what we are doing - in a nut shell. We tried other stuff and this works best for us. With photographers - you will find many many different methods/ pricing structures. You have to watch your bottom line and make sure your sessions end up grossing a number that you are happy with.

[Outlaw]

I'll tell you my example from this year is one not to follow, and we are changing our pricing structure for next year to hopefully correct the problems we saw crop up this year.

This year, we have charged $75 for up to one hour in studio or on location (locally), make-up artist, and digital proofs.

On the good side, we have landed many, many clients, and really built up our portfolio this year. We have quickly gained a lot of area recognition and word of mouth referrals.

On the bad side, as both a combination of our style (fashion portraiture) and pricing structure, we have a done a whole lot of $75 shoots - and negligible print sales.

Our prints range from $10 for 4x6 to $250 for framed and mounted 20x30's (I know, I know...). So it's not as though we are charging too much for prints.

But the clients we have drawn have been people who are perfectly happy with just the digital proofs; they e-mail them to friends and family, post them to MySpace, or just make slideshows to watch on their computers. Most of our clients also came to us through MySpace; generally, younger people (seniors, high schoolers, young families, young couples, etc.) who have no interest in prints at all.

So, admittedly, we (unwittingly) cultivated an extensive client base this year that has gotten everything it wants for the initial $75 fee. My eventual goal is to reach Holly's range through targeting a higher-dollar, wall-art oriented client base.

While my first inclination is to go whole-hog, quadruple prices (of prints and sessions), and start marketing to clients such as Holly's with average sales in the thousands instead of hundreds, my wife and colleagues have advised me to take things one step at a time.

A few goals we're looking at for 2008:
- To use the Professional Photographers of America financial goal of 25-percent Cost of Goods Sold (which greatly increases the price of our enlargements);
- Increase our base session fee (perhaps to $150) and use events and/or mini-sessions to offer a lower fee (and less time) for clients who, as Holly puts it so well, are more so monthly than annual clients;
- Move to projected, in-studio proofing and sales, rather than online digital proofing. For those desiring web-ready images, we may either have special events for them which include digital copies in the session fee, or include web-ready images with any print purchased as a "value add-in."

I hope some of our experience from this year might give you insight as to what not to do, assuming you are looking to work less and earn more. I'm looking forward to seeing how the changes we're making for 2008 will impact our bottom line. I feel we don't have anywhere to go but up!

And besides, your session fee may well be the least of your pricing concerns. It's just an entry point. The majority of your money to be made is on the other side of that door.

[HotHolly]

That is VERY helpful info James. We should start a thread on what NOT to do...maybe save all of us some time and money.

On the note of raising prices to what you want to be - why not? The clients you want and the ones you have are not in the same pool. Slow and steady is sometimes just slow and steady. It sounds like you have already thought about it a whole lot.

I was just thinking - $75 for the session with a MUA! Holy Cow! That is a deal. Sometimes you need more than a price bump or natural raise when things weren't priced where you need them to be. ;o)

[Outlaw]

I would certainly love to raise and command a much higher price, and I feel my work is finally reaching a worthy point there, but I suppose I am trying to play it safe.

While I do have a day job, it only covers the basic bills; my photography income puts food on the table and diapers on the baby. We rely upon it, and I'll admit, I fear raising prices to what they "should" be and failing to convince my clients of their worth. We can't afford to go down in income, and I figure a modest increase for now ensures a step forward without stepping over the edge.

The area we have good access to has a population of a mere 20,000 (in the county), the majority of whom are commuters to the big city. I know success in a rural community is certainly possible, but those who I would target as "boutique" photography clients are hard sells since they only sleep in this county; otherwise, they work and play in the city. The expense of reaching them in their environment is...prohibiting.

Just speaking as Devil's Advocate, there. I certainly agree with you and would love to raise my prices to boutique standards, but the fear of losing family-supporting revenue is strong.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I would certainly love to raise and command a much higher price, and I feel my work is finally reaching a worthy point there, but I suppose I am trying to play it safe.

While I do have a day job, it only covers the basic bills; my photography income puts food on the table and diapers on the baby. We rely upon it, and I'll admit, I fear raising prices to what they "should" be and failing to convince my clients of their worth. We can't afford to go down in income, and I figure a modest increase for now ensures a step forward without stepping over the edge.

The area we have good access to has a population of a mere 20,000 (in the county), the majority of whom are commuters to the big city. I know success in a rural community is certainly possible, but those who I would target as "boutique" photography clients are hard sells since they only sleep in this county; otherwise, they work and play in the city. The expense of reaching them in their environment is...prohibiting.

Just speaking as Devil's Advocate, there. I certainly agree with you and would love to raise my prices to boutique standards, but the fear of losing family-supporting revenue is strong.

Yea, I know exactly what you are talking about. It is a really freaky step. I have to tell you - I have NEVER regretted raising our prices. It usually resulted in getting more clients - oddly enough. When we 1st raised our prices I thought I was gonna chew my fingers off. But, I still have 10 digits and alls good here - even in a smaller town.

Glad you signed up for the Jump Start class. Mike will talk about a lot of this stuff and it'll help you figure out what prices need to be where. Its possible you could look like you lowered your rates, but actually get more money. Its all in the details - the sitting fee is only one aspect. Since you have a digital fan base - you may need to be selling other options, besides prints. Like super-fly myspace stuff and what-have-you!

[Outlaw]

Supa-fly! With marketing terminology like that, how can we lose!

Can't wait for the workshop, I'm very excited. I really respect your work and business acumen and am looking forward to learning a great deal!

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by esanchez

I only do photos for family and friends. And I have been looking around at local photographer to see what they charge and I see "sitting fee" thrown around alot. What does the sitting fee suppose to cover???

As stated before a sitting fee/session fee/creation fee covers your initial expenses plus your time.

But since most photographers in your area are charging a sitting fee you might want to do something different. Just have a single fee or minimum order, then you can use that as one of your unique selling points. "Mrs. Jones, our studio is a little different. We don't charge a sitting fee. Our Portrait Design Sessions are $XXX.XX and that includes your session, a small wall portrait, and a couple of gift portraits. How does that sound?"

[mccls1030]

I'm pretty comfortable with my fees right now but this thread has certainly been informative for me in setting future goals. My appreciation to all who shared.

And what is the Jump Start class?

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by mccls1030

And what is the Jump Start class?

Here is the link - its a class to help your biz get a boost and get more clients and/or more money per session.