Railroad Track photos, how do you decline, or do you?

[brad]

Great! Send those clients to me. I'll get permission from the track owner and then give them what they want.

Psst: Its not trespassing if you get permission.

[Howard Barlow]

Originally Posted by brad

Its not trespassing if you get permission.

It's not trespassing unless you get caught.

[island bound]

small tracks, but how about Trinity Park where the zoo train runs.
That's not BNSF property.

[toverman]

Originally Posted by island bound

small tracks, but how about Trinity Park where the zoo train runs.
That's not BNSF property.

Except that little bugger can sneak up on you!

[dreemes]

I had posted a casting call on MM for a shoot at Davey Dogwood Park in Palestine and a model responded and we got together today. The dogwoods weren't in full bloom and there just wasn't many photo opps there so we ended up going to TSRR there in Palestine. The TSRR people never said anything to us about shooting. In fact they were helpful. The diesel #7 was sitting there running with the cars behind it as they was working on the brakes on the cars. The gates leading to the train was closed and the model asked them if it was ok if we went in and done a few shots with the model on the steps of the passenger cars and they opened the gate for us and allowed us to shoot. Of course we got our shots and got out so we wouldn't abuse their hospitality. Got a lot of great shots. I will post some in the People section in a day or so.

[keefeborden]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

There is nothing illegal about photographing railroad tracks, however being on railroad property is considered "trespassing" and it is a "FELONY" offense. And the railroad police take it very seriously. Just ask my fellow photographer in Plainview who found out first hand how serious it can be.

Don is entirely correct... It is trespassing -- and railroad cops are some of the biggest *sses around. They take their job very seriously. I know of a runner who was caught trespassing along the right of way by a railroad cop. He wasn't fined -- they slapped handcuffs on him and hauled his butt off in the back of an SUV. I'm not sure where they took him, but he was booked and charged with trespassing. The assistant DA in charge of the case initially wanted to make an example of him. Somehow the case was transferred to someone else, who wasn't so serious. The charges were eventually dropped only because the area was not clearly marked where he was arrested. Still, he had to hire an attorney to fight on his behalf for several weeks. I really don't know what that cost him, but I doubt the railroad company refunded his legal fees.

Before shooting, I would think carefully about several issues:
--How much do you want to risk getting caught?
--How tolerant are you of that risk?
--Are you friends with any good criminal defense attorneys?
--If not, how much have you budgeted for your legal defense?
--How good does it look for your business when you and your client get arrested together?
--What do you tell this child's mother at that point?
--How much extra time in the future do you want to spend fighting off charges when you are caught red handed trespassing?

Let us know what you eventually decide.

Best, Keefe.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by keefeborden

Don is entirely correct... It is trespassing -- and railroad cops are some of the biggest *sses around. They take their job very seriously. I know of a runner who was caught trespassing along the right of way by a railroad cop. He wasn't fined -- they slapped handcuffs on him and hauled his butt off in the back of an SUV. I'm not sure where they took him, but he was booked and charged with trespassing. The assistant DA in charge of the case initially wanted to make an example of him. Somehow the case was transferred to someone else, who wasn't so serious. The charges were eventually dropped only because the area was not clearly marked where he was arrested. Still, he had to hire an attorney to fight on his behalf for several weeks. I really don't know what that cost him, but I doubt the railroad company refunded his legal fees.

Before shooting, I would think carefully about several issues:
--How much do you want to risk getting caught?
--How tolerant are you of that risk?
--Are you friends with any good criminal defense attorneys?
--If not, how much have you budgeted for your legal defense?
--How good does it look for your business when you and your client get arrested together?
--What do you tell this child's mother at that point?
--How much extra time in the future do you want to spend fighting off charges when you are caught red handed trespassing?

Let us know what you eventually decide.

Best, Keefe.

Keefe,

VERY well said! I will remember these points when this issue comes up again.

My older brother is an attorney and a rail fan and he advised me, at all cost, stay off of railroad property with clients.

CJ

[Howard Barlow]

I'm just wondering. If a photographer suggests using the tracks, say for a senior, and they go and all get in trouble, do you figure the client will sue the photographer for taking them somewhere they got arrested? Or, at least, I figure they would hand them the ticket and say, "You suggested this place, here's your 'session fee'."

[ddphotography]

You know Howard that is a great question!! I am meeting with this particular senior on Wednesday and doing her Seniors on Friday afternoon... I am hoping to have an alternative to offer them instead of the train tracks, cause I ain't doing it, period!!

[Dokk]

Wow Deb! I bet you never thought you'd open a can o' worms this big, huh?

You've heard all the pros and cons. Yes, it is illegal. Yes, it can be dangerous. Yes, the railroad police do march to a different drummer and they have HUGE legal teams and lots of money backing them so they can pretty much walk all over you and get away with it. They likelyhood of this actually happeneing? Low. My best advice is to follow a few of the suggestions here about Grapevine and Stockyards in Ft. Worth. This is a small railroad that depends on tourism so they can't afford the bad press of being mean and ahteful to people. Besides, people are always taking pix of each other on the tracks in and around the stations at both of these locations. Be sure and charge a location fee for the trouble of shooting there too...

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

I'm just wondering. If a photographer suggests using the tracks, say for a senior, and they go and all get in trouble, do you figure the client will sue the photographer for taking them somewhere they got arrested? Or, at least, I figure they would hand them the ticket and say, "You suggested this place, here's your 'session fee'."

Good point Howard, but if this happened to ME...it wouldn't be the $$ invovled as much as the charge that shows up on my name! Take care of that for the client. I would be pretty pissed about having a felony charge on my name due to an ignorant photographers desire to shoot on the railroad tracks.

Remember the age old (and VERY true) addage: A satisfied customer will tell maybe a couple of people...a disatisfied customer will tell 100's of people!

CJ

[dreemes]

Originally Posted by CobyPhoto

Good point Howard, but if this happened to ME...it wouldn't be the $$ invovled as much as the charge that shows up on my name! Take care of that for the client. I would be pretty pissed about having a felony charge on my name due to an ignorant photographers desire to shoot on the railroad tracks.

Remember the age old (and VERY true) addage: A satisfied customer will tell maybe a couple of people...a disatisfied customer will tell 100's of people!

CJ

Not to mention all the bad coverage on the 6pm and 10pm news that could result.

I think a better alternative to trying to use a heavily active track owned by UP or BNSF is to look around for a track owned by a short line. They might be more willing to work with you.

[Lucid Photo]

There is a set of tracks in Keller that is not RR property. It has a box car and a flat bed car as well as some tracks. No danger of getting wiped out by a train or arrested/ fined. The city does not mind it being used and I have shot several there. PM me and I will give you directions if you are interested.