Dealing with senior HS student location portraits

[canoflan]

My question relates to working with seniors for personal location portraiture, not for senior portrait packages like would be offered to a public school.

For those of you that work with seniors like this (they usually are around 17 to 18 years old), do you ever get the feeling they are not all there?

For example, you setup a time to consult with them and their parents about pricing and contracts and come the date and time of the consultation (several days after setting things up), you find out their parents didn't even know you had setup a time with their daughter to meet with everyone.

I had this happen recently and due to the fact that the daughter and parents do not appear to be all on the same page, we possibly are not going to be able to shoot her portraits in time for her graduation announcements due to me not having the flexibility to reschedule around their calendar. Of course, I will shoot her portraits anytime I am available, but due to a lack of communication on her part (and there is a chance she told her parents and they forgot or ignored her) things may be disappointing for her.

One of the interesting things is that I know that photography for location portraits isn't cheap and I think many people go into hiring a photographer thinking we will get a CD and some prints for a couple hundred dollars; when after you hear what they want, a couple hundred basically gets the photographer on location simply to take the pictures, not to mention the deliverables (at least that is my range). Therefore, sticker shock sometimes sets in and instead of telling you they are not interested, or "your prices are too high," they wiggle out of meeting with you (not sure how often this happens).

I think going forward, when I am contacted by a senior, regardless if she is adult age or not, I will ask them to have their parents to call me to set something up because I am pretty sure they are holding the purse strings anyway.

Any thoughts out there?

Pat

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Pat,

We've officially entered the *good enough* zone. Technology has come so far in the last decade that parents or *uncle bob* are getting photos that are simply *good enough* so they find it difficult to pay more for some senior photos than they actually paid for their 10+ megapixel point-and-shoot.

It's logical and it is a hard road to hoe. You're going to have to sell other points such as creativity, experience, and possibly give a guarantee so that if they're not truly blown away by the end result... they're not out $2000.

But hey, that's just my $0.02 on the matter.

- Wil

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by canoflan

I think going forward, when I am contacted by a senior, regardless if she is adult age or not, I will ask them to have their parents to call me to set something up because I am pretty sure they are holding the purse strings anyway.

Any thoughts out there?

Pat

95% of our first contact is by the mom, so that eliminates most of that. When we start talking about reserving a session time with a credit card, that always gets the parent on the phone. Even though many students will reply to our website, if they don't leave a phone number we respond back to them for a home phone number.

[canoflan]

Yeah, I am learning that I simply need to deal with the parents immediately after being contacted by the daughter (assuming she was the first to contact me).

Thanks for the great advice.
Pat

[carrbowl]

Man I'm glad he's back....what I wouldn't do to have a day and fill my brain with his information!!!! Guess I should have started taking photos when I was in my teens...maybe by the time I hit 80 I 'll have as much USEFUL information in my brain as Don!!!

[Howard Barlow]

Like Don said, deal with Mom. Some girls...SOME... are dependable, but don't bet on it. Before I started taking session fees in advance, it didn't take me long to decide I would NEVER give a boy a Saturday, or late afternoon. I can't tell you how often Momma came in, alone, and said, "He's coming to meet us." Not. Tell you what...I'm glad I wasn't them there boys, when they finally showed their faces at home.

Oh... no... I never let them reschedule.

[SHIFTcanadian]

Im one of those people. When I had my senior pictures done (what got me into photography) 5 years ago it was almost $1000.

Now when i do them myself, ill be lucky to get $250 out of the deal. Its why i dont deal with printing anymore, its a way to cut down time costs.

I just hand them a cd with the pictures they choose, and they can do whatever they like. If they want editing, itll be $50-100/hr.

Photography has been butchered horribly.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by SHIFTcanadian

Photography has been butchered horribly.

I hate that part.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by SHIFTcanadian

Im one of those people. When I had my senior pictures done (what got me into photography) 5 years ago it was almost $1000.

Now when i do them myself, ill be lucky to get $250 out of the deal. Its why i dont deal with printing anymore, its a way to cut down time costs.

I just hand them a cd with the pictures they choose, and they can do whatever they like. If they want editing, itll be $50-100/hr.

Photography has been butchered horribly.

I average way above 250.00 per senior as do many other photograhers I know in Houston. NONE of them, including myself sell images on a disc. The key is, we do things "Uncle Harry" and the GWC's can't do.

Of course, we don't have day jobs either. We spend 85% of our time being the best photograper we can and that results in a much better final product and over all client experience as compared to part-time photographers.

The only reason Photography is being "butchered" is because ANYONE can pick up a DSLR and call themselves in business and promot their work as professional. Further, they don't make the investment (on many levels) we as full time professionals do, to insure that clients receive a product/service worth the money that is paid.

CJ

[thebeginning]

Originally Posted by CobyPhoto

I average way above 250.00 per senior as do many other photograhers I know in Houston. NONE of them, including myself sell images on a disc. The key is, we do things "Uncle Harry" and the GWC's can't do.

Of course, we don't have day jobs either. We spend 85% of our time being the best photograper we can and that results in a much better final product and over all client experience as compared to part-time photographers.

The only reason Photography is being "butchered" is because ANYONE can pick up a DSLR and call themselves in business and promot their work as professional. Further, they don't make the investment (on many levels) we as full time professionals do, to insure that clients receive a product/service worth the money that is paid.

CJ

bingo. Selling the product is only a piece of selling the experience, which is something most starting photographers can't quite do. It's all in the marketing of a brand - a high class product that can't be found anywhere else. This is how high-end clients justify spending the 'big bucks'.

[SHIFTcanadian]

Originally Posted by CobyPhoto

I average way above 250.00 per senior as do many other photograhers I know in Houston. NONE of them, including myself sell images on a disc. The key is, we do things "Uncle Harry" and the GWC's can't do.

Of course, we don't have day jobs either. We spend 85% of our time being the best photograper we can and that results in a much better final product and over all client experience as compared to part-time photographers.

The only reason Photography is being "butchered" is because ANYONE can pick up a DSLR and call themselves in business and promot their work as professional. Further, they don't make the investment (on many levels) we as full time professionals do, to insure that clients receive a product/service worth the money that is paid.

CJ

I would love to do this full time, i just cant make enough money at it. People arent willing to pay for brilliance, they are willing to settle for mediocrity. Its very sad. My Associates of Arts costed me alot of time, i wish people would pay something its worth.

For an average car shoot, ill get $25-50. Its rediculous.

[STP Images]

.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by SHIFTcanadian

People arent willing to pay for brilliance, they are willing to settle for mediocrity.

Really? I guess that is why Mercedes, BMW, Rolex, and ANY number of other Luxury line of products doesn't sale. I know people that will save for months to get the latest Coach/Gucci etc purse. People will NOT settle for mediocrity. You couldn't be further off base.

I don't compete with Wal-Mart, Portrait Innovations etc. They can't do what I do.

Again I stress, as a professional we make an investment on several levels that part-timers can't make. I don't market to nor do I want the clients that would consider going to Wal-Mart or "good enough" mediocre photography studios.

CJ

[movingex]

Originally Posted by CobyPhoto

Really? I guess that is why Mercedes, BMW, Rolex, and ANY number of other Luxury line of products doesn't sale. I know people that will save for months to get the latest Coach/Gucci etc purse. People will NOT settle for mediocrity. You couldn't be further off base.

I don't compete with Wal-Mart, Portrait Innovations etc. They can't do what I do.

Again I stress, as a professional we make an investment on several levels that part-timers can't make. I don't market to nor do I want the clients that would consider going to Wal-Mart or "good enough" mediocre photography studios.

CJ

Originally Posted by SHIFTcanadian
People arent willing to pay for brilliance, they are willing to settle for mediocrity.


You are both correct. Some people will settle for mediocrity some people won't. Some people don't have $1000 to spend on pictures, some people do.

It's all about identifying who you are going to sell to and working your way into that market.

I am in a low end market right now and I'm trying to work my way out of it. At the same time I am trying to improve my skills so that I can deliver a product that is worth what I want to charge for it.

I do believe that most of it is about who you know and how well you can market and sell yourself or your business. I have seen people in all kinds of businesses sell the heck out of a mediocre product and have customers who can't get enough of whatever it is, photography included.

If you operate in an area where people don't have a lot of money it's going to be hard to charge the same as people who mix and mingle with the affluent. That's just the way it is.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by movingex

You are both correct. Some people will settle for mediocrity some people won't. Some people don't have $1000 to spend on pictures, some people do.

It's all about identifying who you are going to sell to and working your way into that market.

Have you LOOKED at who is buying these expensive purses, clothing, cars? Just as many people that are in the lower income area buy this product as do the higher incomes. IF they percive your product as quality, they will find a way to buy it. You do not have to bring your price down to get them to buy. I can't count the number of Senior's Moms that walk in with cash they have saved up, to get their child's senior portraits, because they want them a certain way.

It is like I said. You have to do something that "Uncle Harry" can't do with his dslr. Photoshop and heavily post processed photos aren't the way, cause just about every HS kid can work photoshop. You have to be able to offer a product AND service that makes them come in your studio.

CJ