Im done! No more negs

[thebeginning]

Originally Posted by canoflan

I have removed offering electronic copies from my price list, however, if I am asked specifically, I will work out a fee for a copy based on specific use, such as use on myspace, or something of that sort.

When I was working with a B&G recently (I let the job go BTW), I indicated in my initial contract that all printing would have to be done by me. They were very upset by this because they wanted to do scrapbooking and such and wanted all the photos on a CD for this purpose since they figured I would have a bunch of photos I would not think would be suitable for a formal album, but they would want for their scrapbook (not sure I know the difference, but there was a difference to them). I tried first to describe to them the difference between "straight from the camera" and "print ready." Print ready has all the fine tuning needed for me to put my name on a print. I was willing to sell the files, but for a very high price. They tried to talk me into selling them the electronic file for less if they purchased a print since I would have to go through all the finalization for a print anyway, so why not throw in the electronic file for a reasonable extra cost (like $10). They insisted that it doesn't make sense for all printing to go through me since if I drop off the earth or something, then they would not be able to get additional prints in the future since they would not have the electronic copies. I thought this was a little extreme and a good ploy for them to try and get me to give away the negatives that are print ready and, in my opinion, are worth at least $100-$150 a piece based on the work and expertise I put into my photography.

I am curious, however, how do you handle those clients that tell you they want to be able to have prints made if you go out of business and they do not have the electronic copies? I know this is a new thing because in the days of film, this simply could not happen, best I understand anyway.

Thoughts?
Pat

you could remind them how difficult (or impossible) it was to get digital scans or actual negatives from photographers 10 or more years ago. Not only was it difficult, it was extremely expensive.

You may also want to consider this...if you are going to sell any at all, consider selling them in bulk. For weddings, they likely don't want the negatives for printing a ton of one picture, but to print one or two of alot of pictures. Because of this, paying $150 per image will seem silly (not to us of course, but to them). Consider offering a larger amount of digital files for a respectable amount of money (I'm not sure how your pricing is so I can't really give an estimate). If you sell them in bulk they are more likely to see the value and go for it. Many times if you sell per individual file they will just be scared away. So instead of selling per image, try selling 'the best' 20, 50, 100, 250, etc.

I see that this won't work for every person and/or every client base, but I almost have to in my area.

[canoflan]

thebeginning,

I have adjusted my price sheet to not provide pricing for electronic copies, however, I do not state I will not sell them.

I understand your bulk method and this is what we received from our wedding photographer only a few years ago. We received 350 pictures for $200, all jpegs, but full, highquality, but not print ready.

What I plan to do is when a client calls me and asks about pricing, I will tell them up front that I do not sell the electronic negatives, except in very rare circumstances and they are highly controlled via a licensing agreement and delivery must be watermarked, and never manipulated, etc.... I understand we cannot control really what happens after we release prints, or electronic copies, however, that is why we should be compensated, and put the usage in a license agreement that the client fully understands.

I think when they see why we don't want to let them go, they really can understand where we are coming from and if they still want them, they will pick the pictures carefully and agree in writing to handle as we agree they should.

Since I am just starting out, I don't want to set a precedent with paying customers that I give away the shop.

Pat

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by canoflan

I understand we cannot control really what happens after we release prints, or electronic copies, however, that is why we should be compensated, and put the usage in a license agreement that the client fully understands.

I think thats the problem. They DO understand, but many still do what ever they want. What price would you put on uglying up your hard work and then telling people it came from you? I'd been thinking I was being too negative about this, so we tried it, and now Im back to where I started. Oh well.

[centtex1]

you go Holly! EVERY TIME i gave up negs/files and saw what was done to them, i wanted to chew through my wrists and bleed to death right there on the floor! it took me three times to learn that everyone has a brother/sister-in-law that is a photoshop genius, i am not good at post processing so i did not know there were so many ways to screw up a perfectlly nice shot! stick to it...

[luis_relampago]

I sell my digital files not raw or straight out of the camera but PP and in different sizes no watermark for a good amount and I don't know why but most of my clients come back for re-prints, I guess once they found out that the printing quality it's not there in CVS or Walgreen's they come back, at the end I make more money.
I have a web space where people can see my work and judge it, I also have a portfolio with prints from previous jobs and people can see that too when they make an appointment with me. In my humble opinion, if someone make one of my images look bad it's better for my business it gives me the sales point of "amateur work" versus "professional work" and that it's a big sale point.

[AndrewCCM]

I guess ultimately people just need to decide if not offering them becomes a business problem. For instance, losing too much business due to it... If not, then great...Unfortunately, I see the trend where this is expected with the younger generation. Whether that is right or wrong...or whether you choose to or not is ultimately a personal business decision. But as we have all read in other threads on varying subjects, when things negatively effects bookings and revenue to a point, business practices change (especially if your livelihood depends on it...)

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

I guess ultimately people just need to decide if not offering them becomes a business problem. For instance, losing too much business due to it... If not, then great...Unfortunately, I see the trend where this is expected with the younger generation. Whether that is right or wrong...or whether you choose to or not is ultimately a personal business decision. But as we have all read in other threads on varying subjects, when things negatively effects bookings and revenue to a point, business practices change (especially if your livelihood depends on it...)

I just hate the idea of turning over digital negatives to which I have ownership/copyright rights. There is no way the guy who made our family portraits would sell the digital files. I didn't ask, I just know he wouldn't (again, copyright).

[AndrewCCM]

I would say 8 of 10 inquiries I get want digital files...Regardless, I don't book weddings anymore... I second shoot.

Hating the idea is understandable...As I mention, it'll just depend on how it ultimately impacts your business over the long haul... I'd say with less established photogs without much of a reputation that it "could" be a deal killer in many instances. I am not advocating one way or the other... I am just stating that it seems the norm for younger people (typically the ones getting married) to expect or request.

Glad I don't deal with that part of the biz anymore. :)

[Jake]

Selling wedding files is different then selling portrait files.
Are we talking about both, or one or the other?

[CobyPhoto]

I consult with alot of brides each month and I rarely have them request digital negatives. When they do, a little questioning and education on why we don't sell them usually handles the issue. I now regularly give brides a selection of web ready images to share and place on Myspace/Facebook. I can honestly say that I have not had a bride tell me she wasn't willing to book unless I sold her the digital files.

Education is key here. Once the reasoning behind not selling files is discused, but have the option available (and they realize I will have the files for many years) the issue rarely comes back up. This month alone, I have booked three of 5 consultations that the bride originally requested digital files. The other two brides...I think I was out of their price range.

I am loading a digital photo frame on a wedding as well. (Actually in the contract! LOL) I am flexible, and yes, will sell the digital files, but only after a couple of requirements are met and the price isn't cheap.

CJ