Im done! No more negs

[HotHolly]

OK, I had always been leery of selling the negatives/ files on our sessions. I work hard to set up my vision of the client, lights, PP, etc. Selling negs fell under super-rare to never. Super rare was for people that wanted them just in case. Paper prints were always ordered from us and the disc was locked up somewhere in case their house burned down.

Then, I finally gave up and let some young begging couple buy their negs. Holy. That is the fastest way to have your work butchered and made into crap. I was just so shocked they paid for us and then did that. Why hire a photog if you think you can do everything yourself? Yeah, negs are coming off the table pronto.

I know there are only a handful of photogs that dont sell their negs for quality control reasons. Just letting you know, our concern was dead on! Don't do it!!! OK, Im done.

[Killeenguy]

great decision if you ask me.

[carrbowl]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

OK, I had always been leery of selling the negatives/ files on our sessions. I work hard to set up my vision of the client, lights, PP, etc. Selling negs fell under super-rare to never. Super rare was for people that wanted them just in case. Paper prints were always ordered from us and the disc was locked up somewhere in case their house burned down.

Then, I finally gave up and let some young begging couple buy their negs. Holy. That is the fastest way to have your work butchered and made into crap. I was just so shocked they paid for us and then did that. Why hire a photog if you think you can do everything yourself? Yeah, negs are coming off the table pronto.

I know there are only a handful of photogs that dont sell their negs for quality control reasons. Just letting you know, our concern was dead on! Don't do it!!! OK, Im done.

Thanks...I have almost felt "guilty" over this...I hear so many people saying it's ok..it realy doesn't matter, they really won't notice the difference, etc.. I will continue to stick to my guns!!!!!

[toverman]

I agree that we probably shouldn't be selling negatives (and I've raised the price of mine to make it easy for them not to want them). But with the fly-by-nighters more than willing to hand over the complete hi-res digital files, and that seeming to be something so many clients demand, it's not something likely to go away.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by toverman

it's not something likely to go away.

No, and it seems more apparent with everything in a digital format. People think they know how our equipment and programs work, so they want to jump right in and grab the negs. Admirable ambition, but its not that simple. I've had people watch me editing photos and just be stunned, mouth hanging open. I'm not doing anything amazing. But they thought they knew how to use photoshop. Photography is so much more than photoshop! Im preaching to the choir, I know.

This issue was there before when photogs shot film. Its been there b/c the bridal magazines make it sound like you should have the negs. It's hard to tell if expectation is mirroring reality, or if we created the digital negs craze reality ourselves.

[ka5txl]

i can only speak from very limited experience. I have shot two weddings over the years. The first one was the little sister of a former girlfriend, I gave the couple the negatives with the pictures. Wish I had kept the negatives. The other one was for my youngest niece, I gave them the negatives and the cd. At least I kept copies of the files to my hard drive this time ( grasshopper learns ) Since I didn't want to deal with my brother's ex inlaws photos have lasted longer than her marriage so at some time I will get a do over. Don't know if I will pursue this to a paying gig but if it's outside Family I plan on keeping the files. Looking foward to Austin
Larry

[toverman]

I think when a couple (or bride in particular) really thinks about it, why would they/she really want all the negatives, digital or otherwise? Even after editing and post-processing and picking the best 200 or 300, there are still going to be images that they don't really want or care for. So what are they going to do with them? It's crazy! And it's a lot of work for them to go through the CDs or DVDs and upload them to a cheapo printer and then get crummy prints (that can reflect on our work later).

More preaching to the choir ...

[thebeginning]

I've had the same experiences. The trick is, if you decide to do it (even on the most ultra-rare occasions), price it very high. This will discourage people from doing it, and will make it worthwhile (or close) if they do.

[AndrewCCM]

I know quite a few very successful photogs that include the digital negs with their higher end packages. Doesn't seem to be negatively impacting their business. But.. I can appreciate both sides of the issue.

Personally...I sell mine...but then again... My business is mainly a work for hire situation that is specifically for that purpose.

The only people I have seen butcher my images are dang TFP models putting altered junk on Myspace. Don't do that any longer...heck...I don't even shoot models anymore.. LOL

[JMM]

If you have not noticed, they just scan the prints they have purchased anyway. Why not sell them a year or so after the event so the images are preserved forever, instead you you eventually throwing them away. I do not offer this for children, just seniors and the few weddings I have taken.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by JMM

If you have not noticed, they just scan the prints they have purchased anyway..

No, they dont all do that. That is not my main concern here either. The reprinting concern is secondary to mutilating the images in photoshop, messing with crop, and turning hard work into crap - all with your companies logo on it. Talk about spreading bad WOM. Andrew mentioning what the models do hits the concern dead on. *bleck*

I also think its interesting how many people PMed me about this. I expected to be diced and sliced for even mentioning it. Apparently, so did they so they PMed me. lol. You guys can do what you want, but Im done.

[barP]

i totally agree with you, holly.

giving up the negs = bad potential.

i've compromised - for now - and have an "equivalent print purchase" clause in my contract. it basically says "if you want the disc, it will be scary expensive unless you buy an equivalent dollar amount in prints, in which case i will let you have it."

that way, i can at least hope someone sees the prints and judges from that instead of some digital disaster.

wp.

[canoflan]

I am with HotHolly on this one.

I have just removed offering CD's at all. If they want them electronically, they can scan them. The only thing you can do is put in the contract that they are not legally allowed to scan them (i.e. that is copying).

I do agree everything has a price (i.e. selling 200 negs on CD for $3000 or something like that), but the price of work being manipulated is beyong measure.

In fact, here is a sign of the times. Someone I know very well asked me know photographers make their money if they are not selling the CD? This shows how far this digital generation has come. There is a market for prints, then a market for the electronic copies, and both.

I proved to this person that most professional local mall studios do not sell CDs and make their money on prints. This one place almost gives away their session fees, but sells 8x10 sheets for $40 a pop. If you want a size larger than 8x10, you are looking at really big dollars (especially for 16x20s). I saw this place this weekend and it was packed. They simply take the pictures, put them on the net for proof viewing and then sell the prints. No CDs are offered anywhere.

Yeah, kids want the electronic copies to send around the net, but if they want them bad enough, they can scan them and if they want a release to do that, they can pay mightily for it.

I am done too. I am thankful this isn't my day job, but we will see where my business goes.

Pat

[thebeginning]

I don't offer full-size digital files, but if a senior wants a photo to put on their myspace or whatever I will let them. I'll resize the file to 500px max and put a watermark over the center. There's no chance they will print it and get something good (and I'll tell them that), and I also get free advertising.



The only time I offer full-size images is to wedding clients, and as has already been said, it is a relatively high price.

[canoflan]

I have removed offering electronic copies from my price list, however, if I am asked specifically, I will work out a fee for a copy based on specific use, such as use on myspace, or something of that sort.

When I was working with a B&G recently (I let the job go BTW), I indicated in my initial contract that all printing would have to be done by me. They were very upset by this because they wanted to do scrapbooking and such and wanted all the photos on a CD for this purpose since they figured I would have a bunch of photos I would not think would be suitable for a formal album, but they would want for their scrapbook (not sure I know the difference, but there was a difference to them). I tried first to describe to them the difference between "straight from the camera" and "print ready." Print ready has all the fine tuning needed for me to put my name on a print. I was willing to sell the files, but for a very high price. They tried to talk me into selling them the electronic file for less if they purchased a print since I would have to go through all the finalization for a print anyway, so why not throw in the electronic file for a reasonable extra cost (like $10). They insisted that it doesn't make sense for all printing to go through me since if I drop off the earth or something, then they would not be able to get additional prints in the future since they would not have the electronic copies. I thought this was a little extreme and a good ploy for them to try and get me to give away the negatives that are print ready and, in my opinion, are worth at least $100-$150 a piece based on the work and expertise I put into my photography.

I am curious, however, how do you handle those clients that tell you they want to be able to have prints made if you go out of business and they do not have the electronic copies? I know this is a new thing because in the days of film, this simply could not happen, best I understand anyway.

Thoughts?
Pat