In Business Too Soon?

[CaptainTom]

"I'm photographing my bosses wedding next month and it's at night. What is the best flash to use ? What setting should I put on my camera ? How much should I charge for a wedding ? Should I buy an extra battery ?

"

If they only knew what they were getting into !!!

Why not

" Everyone says I build some really great bird houses. I'm going to open a home building company next month. What kind of hammer should I buy ?"

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by canoflan

All industries go through ebbs and flows of their maturity and just like you mentioned with the fly-by-night web mania a few years ago, markets eventually assign real value.

Just some thoughts,
Pat

Can't wait until all photographers are from India.

[12stones]

Great discussion. I knew you'd have something to say, Coby, but I'm glad I started it, so I don't mind if people yell at me. They won't have anything on my old Sergeant Major anyway.

Part of the problem I have, and Grant brought this up perfectly, is that it seems like it is the American Idol of the photographic industry. And it's not with the finalists, it's the awful tryouts. I was reading on a different forum where a woman was asking for a critique of photos that were just awful. It was admittedly her first wedding, but she thought it was okay because of that fact and the fact that she didn't charge too much. Her perspective was: it's all about learning, right? My thought is that these people aren't going to have a chance to get that moment captured again. There's no redo.

[Collins]

Along those same lines I wonder why people will photograph a wedding with *no* photographic experience. I mean, we all have to start from somewhere but I didn't even *think* about trying to photograph a wedding without basic photography knowledge.

This may bother people, but if you don't even know how to work your camera (and/or flash) you shouldn't shoot weddings--newbie or not.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by Collins

Along those same lines I wonder why people will photograph a wedding with *no* photographic experience. I mean, we all have to start from somewhere but I didn't even *think* about trying to photograph a wedding without basic photography knowledge.

This may bother people, but if you don't even know how to work your camera (and/or flash) you shouldn't shoot weddings--newbie or not.

Or anything else for that matter...It is just plain un-ethical to take money for something you are trained, preped and prepared to do. Ummm, I think it is called Fraud.

CJ

[3n-Out]

From what I have read over and over, it doesn't to much matter to the client/customer if you can operate a camera or have a great skillset and artist eye. If you can't sell it what good is anyway? When as far as they know they are just getting photographs one way or the other.

[HotHolly]

I read lots of forums and some that have a ton of newBs (where many have no idea how to use their camera) and they don't see the problem with jumping straight in. That itself is a problem. They admire other photogs work, strive to copy, and fall short and dont know why. Its usually b/c they are lacking skills and need the experience, education, and vision you guys are talking about. They have the same mentality some of the worst clients have. They think a monkey could be a photographer, and earn the big bucks. Turns out, its harder than it looks. Monkeys take crappy photos.

I also think that some of the best photogs tend to think they suck, or at least have a self-deprecating sense of their work. That sense leads to the desire to improve. Arrogance is counterproductive. How can you learn when you think you already know everything?

The jumping in head 1st thing does cause industry damage in that the clients that thought they were getting a pro fail to see the difference b/t the "pro" they got and Aunt Suzie, b/c their pro is shooting on the same level as Aunt Suzie. That causes people to question what they are paying for. If your pro photog can't shoot better than GWC, there's a problem. Most people have encountered this level "pro" and don't see why they should pay for a pro at all. Its not until they see stuff side by side that they start to notice that maybe a monkey couldn't do this job after all.

Skill is only a portion of what it takes to get off the ground and not crash and burn. Business sense and vision are biggies too. How they all play together is what makes you or breaks you.

[RightAngle]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

I also think that some of the best photogs tend to think they suck, or at least have a self-deprecating sense of their work. That sense leads to the desire to improve. Arrogance is counterproductive. How can you learn when you think you already know everything?

The jumping in head 1st thing does cause industry damage in that the clients that thought they were getting a pro fail to see the difference b/t the "pro" they got and Aunt Suzie, b/c their pro is shooting on the same level as Aunt Suzie. That causes people to question what they are paying for. If your pro photog can't shoot better than GWC, there's a problem. Most people have encountered this level "pro" and don't see why they should pay for a pro at all. Its not until they see stuff side by side that they start to notice that maybe a monkey couldn't do this job after all.

Skill is only a portion of what it takes to get off the ground and not crash and burn. Business sense and vision are biggies too. How they all play together is what makes you or breaks you.

Nicely put.... that first paragraph about the arrogance and such was very well worded

[toverman]

No photographer will ever know everything, especially now that the technology is changing so quickly. Consider that changes were always happening but came slower in the film era. I would have loved to give my right thumb a break and have an auto-film winder on my old camera! We should all want to learn, get better and find our own styles.

People who go pro before they are ready may never be ready. If they don't have the patience to learn the art and craft of photography, it's unlikely they'll really study the mundane (and time-consuming and all-important) art of business.

Several things, some already mentioned, are hurting the industry. One that bothers me most is the Craigslistization of photography. Check out the ads and you'll quickly tire of counting the ones that want to "serve all your photography needs" or offer "complete wedding coverage for $250 with CD included!" Go onto any of the Web sites connected to such ads and see how dismal their photos are, and see visions of heartbroken couples whose entire wedding was out of focus, underexposed and miscropped. But the price was right!

Mandatory: camera skills, photo skills, business (and marketing) skills and people skills.

[AndrewCCM]

Keep in mind you can 'hire" business and marketing skills to some extent.

There are a lot of highly successful photogs that use publicity firms to promote themselves and their 'workshops". Many of these folks don't have any exceptional skills...(solid sure...but nothing more than many other less successful ones).

[Killeenguy]

I like where this conversation is going.

[centtex1]

even though i shot pro for a couple of years in the past, it was a LONG TIME AGO! before i jump in and hang the shingle again i have been relearning everything day by day. i practice lighting, posing, processing every day and i won't start until i am confident in my ability to create i quality images everytime i pull the trigger. if swimmers learned to swim the way most people try to be a photographer, we would have a lot less swimmers in the world. just my thoughts

[DeLeon]

Originally Posted by toverman

...Mandatory: camera skills, photo skills, business (and marketing) skills and people skills.

Girls like guys with skills...

[d2creative]

Originally Posted by 12stones

My thought is that these people aren't going to have a chance to get that moment captured again. There's no redo.

Yeah, but there are so many people out there that wouldn't know good photography if it jumped up and bit them. The couple from that first wedding example may have been completely satisfied with the pics based on the price they payed (or didn't pay). And that's a couple you DON'T want to shoot for.