In Business Too Soon?

[12stones]

I've been doing A LOT of reading in this forum and other large photo forums and it's struck me more than once that there seems to be quite a few photographers that have hung out their shingle too soon. By this I mean that they're selling their services and working for clients, but don't even have the basics of composition and exposure down. You can see this by the pictures they post on their websites or post for C&C. I plan to get into professional photography myself, but I know now is not the time due to inexperience. I wonder what makes people think that they should open for business. Is it because some friends say they take nice pictures? They've taken some semi-professionally as a favor that didn't turn out half bad? I go through one forum (which will remain nameless) and it seems that 3 of every 4 wedding photogs are selling prints that are subpar on the basis of general photographic principles.

My questions are these: What do you think about this in a general sense? Do you think this hurts the professional photography industry? Why do people choose to use these photographers? I ask these so that I can learn for when the time comes for me to start working professionally; I don't want to make the same mistakes.

[3n-Out]

Great Minds think alike!

[BrianY]

Well, since there aren't any mandatory certifications, you're going to get people getting into the business with the full range of skills, from awful to excellent.

My feeling is going 'pro' is more about business and less about photography than most people realize. Just because you can take great photographs doesn't mean you'll do well in the business of photography.

The upcoming business workshop would be a great start. Just noticed that you signed up.

[gmarblestone]

i htink its american idol syndrom. Everyone that tries out for that show thinks they are a professional singer, but we all see them and KNOW they are not.

There is a difference,

G

[12stones]

Originally Posted by byu

Well, since there aren't any mandatory certifications, you're going to get people getting into the business with the full range of skills, from awful to excellent.

My feeling is going 'pro' is more about business and less about photography than most people realize. Just because you can take great photographs doesn't mean you'll do well in the business of photography.

The upcoming business workshop would be a great start. Just noticed that you signed up.

I did sign up; I'm trying to go about this whole thing the right way (at least my interpretation of the right way). My question is more about the people who aren't even taking good photographs. I understand that 'pro' to some people only means making money, but there's definitely a standard of quality (or should be) that many people, me included, expect. Even from less expensive pros.

[canoflan]

In my professional opinion, the market will prevail. Since photography as a business is fairly unregulated, the market is fairly pure.

Due to the fact that intro level D-SLRs have come down in price since their primary introduction about 5 years ago, now Uncle Larry and Susy a couple doors down appear to be viable options; however, noticed I said "appear to be."

I was talking with a church member the other night who sells artwork and from time to time has to have photographic copies of her work for submission purposes. She asked me about my ability and services and asked if I would give her a fair price. I sent her some info and that is that. She can decide whether to go with me; but due to the fact she is in business as well, she understands the idea of COVERING YOUR COST PLUS A MARGIN. Most of your typical neighbors are not business owners and do not understand business, cash flow, risk, profit, and on and on. I know this because I listen to a particular radio program where people call in complaining and don't even know the difference between revenue and profit.

All in all, the market will eventually see that getting professional quality means having the right expertise, equipment, and drive to take care of the client.

I know the you don't have to have expensive cameras to take great photos, however, if you know the principles of good photography, good equipment makes a difference at times. I showed my neighbor the sharpness difference between their $300 28-300mm zoom lens at 85mm and my 85 1.2L and they couldn't believe it (lenses used on their Rebel XTi camera). They really began to understand what can happen being a pro and knowing the capabilities of equipment. I proceeded to tell them that is the lens I used to take the photos of a senior high school student a month before and I saw them really understand why photography costs a decent amount of money. The way I work, if I am going to deliver 8x10's worth $50 (hypothetically), I want the best equipment to use for the time I use it with a client and helps me explain my fees and prices.

All industries go through ebbs and flows of their maturity and just like you mentioned with the fly-by-night web mania a few years ago, markets eventually assign real value.

Just some thoughts,
Pat

[Shelby Lane]

Originally Posted by byu

Just because you can take great photographs doesn't mean you'll do well in the business of photography.

This is absolutely true. I talk to people all the time who are very talented and skilled who are unprepared for the business end of things. And of course, more often, there are people who are unprepared on both levels.

It hurts me more to see someone with a lot of potential who is undercharging for their work because they just don't know how to run their business or even get started with how to price than it does to see someone who is "practicing" on paying clients before they really know enough about photography. Although I think that both are bad for the industry.

[3n-Out]

To be honest, on my behalf I could never invision making enough money off of photography to survive the way I like to live. Maybe when I retire it will be a nice thing to keep me busy but to make a sole living off of it I just don't see how it could work "for Me". Unless I have a studio business where the customers come to me then yes perhaps there is a profit to be made. I donno, I guess it really depends on how much money you need to survive.

10 - 20 years ago things were way different in this business that is for sure.

[canoflan]

Originally Posted by 12stones

but there's definitely a standard of quality (or should be) that many people, me included, expect. Even from less expensive pros.

Well, the only thing I would say to this is that anyone being in business for 30 years can tell you they know mediocre pros that take mediocre photos, but live very well because they can market well.

I am always trying to learn and know that to get better, I need to be around those better than me at what I am seeking to achieve. I was offered to second shoot a wedding with some pros recently and frankly I will pass on them because I saw nothing in their work that I would want to emulate.

Pat

[3n-Out]

Originally Posted by canoflan

Well, the only thing I would say to this is that anyone being in business for 30 years can tell you they know mediocre pros that take mediocre photos, but live very well because they can market well.

I am always trying to learn and know that to get better, I need to be around those better than me at what I am seeking to achieve. I was offered to second shoot a wedding with some pros recently and frankly I will pass on them because I saw nothing in their work that I would want to emulate.

Pat

Heh - one thing that I have learned in life is if you are to succeed and get better at your goals and skill set it is to surround yourself with people that are better then you at what it is you want to do. This is a tried and tested method and has worked for the most experts in their fields. You will hear this from every millionaire, investor, banker and CEO.

This is a man that will do well with this attitude... for sure!!!!!

[12stones]

Originally Posted by canoflan

Well, the only thing I would say to this is that anyone being in business for 30 years can tell you they know mediocre pros that take mediocre photos, but live very well because they can market well.

Granted, but even mediocre would be giving many of these photogs too much credit. Mediocre to me would at least say proper exposure and lighting, even if it's not creative. I understand what you're getting at though. Thanks for the input.

[Collins]

The reason you see so many people entering the industry is the allure of profit potential combined with the limited startup costs to get into the business (depending on the scale at which one chooses to operate).

Off the top of my head, I remember when everyone used to be a web designer or IT specialist. Similar story there.

Now in the low and lower-middle levels, you feel a pinch as the supply outstrips the demand--driving prices down. At the upper levels, however, clients are not willing to take a chance and spend for the best.

The price someone is willing to pay for anything (not just photography) is predicated on how highly they prioritize it, as well as how much they can afford.

New entrants into the business appeal to those that do not value photography highly or do not have the money to obtain the services of someone more experienced/talented. This is just plain ol' economics.

Now that there is more competition, to succeed you must be a better photographer and businessman than before. You have to give people a reason to choose you. Those that are suffering the most in these times are those that don't offer anything compelling in the way of customer service or actual finished product.

[BrianY]

Originally Posted by 12stones

I did sign up; I'm trying to go about this whole thing the right way (at least my interpretation of the right way). My question is more about the people who aren't even taking good photographs. I understand that 'pro' to some people only means making money, but there's definitely a standard of quality (or should be) that many people, me included, expect. Even from less expensive pros.

I'd say you're on the right track. I can see your point there needing to be a minimum requirement - problem is, who decides that? Photography can be so subjective.

So the question is how you define a professional. My point is just that too many get caught up in only the technique of photography. However, they don't work well with people, can't sell/market, have bad accounting practices, poor customer service; more importantly, they don't work on those areas, thinking that as long as they create great images that business will continue to come.

I think of these things as legs of a table. If you're not decent at all of those things, you aren't going to last.

[CobyPhoto]

Originally Posted by Collins

The reason you see so many people entering the industry is the allure of profit potential combined with the limited startup costs to get into the business (depending on the scale at which one chooses to operate).

Now that there is more competition, to succeed you must be a better photographer and businessman than before. You have to give people a reason to choose you. Those that are suffering the most in these times are those that don't offer anything compelling in the way of customer service or actual finished product.

Collins,

Bravo! The only thing that I wanted to point out here, is with the first statement you made. People DO see this as an industry that they can make little to no investment in and think that they will be sucessful. It is NOT so. The ones that fail the quickest are those that just grab a camera, shoot a few pictures and say they are in the business. This industry is just like any other out there...to be sucessfull, you have to make an investment. (i.e. Financially, education wise, etc. You can't just take a couple of cool shot and have someone tell you "oh those are so nice...you should do this for money!")

I tell newbs this on a reagular basis! If you don't give the client a reason to come to you, I don't care if your Monte Zucker, you ain't getting the clients. I give them specific examples and they still look at me like I am crazy. Oh Well.

Good advice! A plan, knowing the basics of photography, studio lighting, equipment, offering full service from shoot to print and treating every client like they are your only client, is a good start.

As far as the original question: "Do you think this hurts the professional photography industry?" OF COURSE! The people doing the very things you pointed out makes it that much harder for the ones that are doing good work and for the new people entering the business. Sad thing is, once we get rid of this batch (and yea, before too long they will be gone) another batch will be right behind them. Your planning and attention to the details and basics of the industry will allow you to out last those that don't do it right.

Shoot, I am just glad SOMEONE ELSE started this thread! I ama tired of getting called names cause I try to tell some of these people they can't do some of the things they are doing and expect someone to pay them for it.

Bout time someone else gets yelled at!

CJ

[Collins]

Originally Posted by CobyPhoto

Bravo! The only thing that I wanted to point out here, is with the first statement you made. People DO see this as an industry that they can make little to no investment in and think that they will be sucessful. It is NOT so.

...to be sucessfull, you have to make an investment. (i.e. Financially, education wise, etc. You can't just take a couple of cool shot and have someone tell you "oh those are so nice...you should do this for money!")

Gospel.