Commercial Photography - what to charge per image?

[CLfry]

I'm not entirely new to architectural photography in general, however, I am new to the commercial side. I'd like to get into commercial photography of exteriors and interiors, but need to experiment and learn a bit as well as build a portfolio...

Enter my new situation: I'm about to start photographing for the home builder I work for and while I won't be charging for my location or processing time directly (at first), we have agreed that the company will pay for the images they use on a per-image basis... However, I don't have a clue as to what I should charge...

I do know that they have been using a popular Austin-based photographer for some time until now, and that this photog wasn't cheap, to say the least, so they're willing to pay... but I don't want to take advantage of that, nor do I want to lose-out on the experience and excellent portfolio subjects...

Suggestions?

[CaptainTom]

http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

I don't charge a per photo fee unless that is the last possible resort.
You can explain to them that at current rates, they will save by paying you a day fee or a half day fee and they get usage of the photos. You now need to set your day fee if you don't have one already. $1500 (cheap) to $5000 ( mid-hi end). Half day rate is $1500/2 plus $300 = $1050 (for example).

[adirty1]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

I don't charge a per photo fee unless that is the last possible resort.
You can explain to them that at current rates, they will save by paying you a day fee or a half day fee and they get usage of the photos. You now need to set your day fee if you don't have one already. $1500 (cheap) to $5000 ( mid-hi end). Half day rate is $1500/2 plus $300 = $1050 (for example).

why the plus 300?

I charge day or half day fee and usage for the image. sometimes depending on the shoot I will include a onetime usage in the day fee.. And in the contract it plainly states that if the client is caught using the image in any other way then what is stated in the usage agreement it's 2 times the normal usage fee.

[CaptainTom]

why the plus 300?

A half day always turns into a 3/4 day due to travel, etc. If the client feels he's getting a deal, he'll likely hire me for the whole day. $$

[CaptainTom]

Also, I can't usually squeeze two half day gigs into the same day.

[CLfry]

Thanks for your input guys.

I am reluctant to charge for my time etc right now since I'm new at it and will use it as a learning process; I may have to return for additional shoots and I want to be able to take my time and experiment. I am also not 100% confident that I can give them what they want right away... but I have to practice somehow, and this is ideal.

I decided to go the per-image route because if I come up with images they can't use, then they are out nothing and I still learn a lot about interior lighting, etc, and get some HDR practice for those situations. However, if they use 10 images from one shoot (very likely since these are model homes used for brochures etc), and i charge, say $100 per image, then I make a reasonable $1000 for session, which I would consider a decent beginning for an inexperienced photographer. After a couple of successful sessions, I'll go to a per-session fee, and they know that.

The calculator in the provided link is very interesting, but if those prices are per-image, $800 (low end) seems unreasonable, at least for this situation... there's no way they'll pay $8k+/- for one model home... I don't think they ended up paying that much for the last guy.

[12stones]

Originally Posted by CLfry

I am reluctant to charge for my time etc right now since I'm new at it and will use it as a learning process

Okay, I just want to point out that regardless of whether or not you're new, you should charge a photographer's price. One thing I learned at a recent Business of Photography seminar is that no one else that opens a business charges less because they're new. Think about it... do you think doctors that are just starting only charge $15 for an office visit because they're new? Or do people who just open a deli only charge half-price because they're new? No. You're going to pay around the same price as you'd pay for a doctor or deli that's been in business for a long time. Your time and effort are worth something. If you don't believe it, no one else will either.

[CLfry]

Originally Posted by 12stones

Okay, I just want to point out that regardless of whether or not you're new, you should charge a photographer's price. One thing I learned at a recent Business of Photography seminar is that no one else that opens a business charges less because they're new. Think about it... do you think doctors that are just starting only charge $15 for an office visit because they're new? Or do people who just open a deli only charge half-price because they're new? No. You're going to pay around the same price as you'd pay for a doctor or deli that's been in business for a long time. Your time and effort are worth something. If you don't believe it, no one else will either.

I can agree to an extent, but in this case the client is paying for a product... if I can't deliver the product to their satisfaction, should they pay for nothing? Charging per image, I get what I'm worth. There will come a time when I'll be able to nail it every time, but I can't penalize a client for my inexperience. I do consider my time and effort to be worth something: an education. If I don't take this on, I won't learn anything. If I charge what G. Russ is charging, they won't use me and I won't get the opportunity to learn with an excellent, real-world subject and add to my portfolio.

Right now, per-image is the only way they get what they pay for, while I get what I'm worth.

Also, I work full time for this company. Being a home builder, they are feeling the recent crunch, and lay-offs have begun... Part of my motivation is to help save them some money where I can, thus helping to save the hand that feeds me and my family.

[CLfry]

Also...

I was thinking about the doctor and deli examples, and they don't sit well with me. Here's why:

1) A new doctor has had what is expected to be a satisfactory education and intern experience, and is thus qualified to start a practice in his field of expertise (point 1). However, if he's a GP who wants to go in to pediatrics, but has no experience or education in the field, then (all licenses, certs and other qualifications aside) no one is going to pay him to be their child's pediatrician when they could pay a qualified Dr the same price (point 2).

I have some experience in commercial and commission work, as well as the fine art side, however, I need more experience with interiors and lighting before I can say I'm qualified to charge for my service in that field.

Speaking as a home designer myself, I would not pay top-dollar for someone to experiment on my dollar, but if that person wants to experiment with my product on their own time, then present to me some worthy results, I would be more than happy to pay full value for the resulting product that I can use.

2) If I walk into the "new Deli" and they have no sandwiches that I want, should I be expected to pay them for a sandwich I didn't get?

I can't guarantee that I'll produce the images that they need right away, so I can't expect them to pay me for my time regardless.

[CaptainTom]

duplicate post

[CaptainTom]

So, go back to school (PPA TPPA ETC.) and learn to be a qualified photographer.
or
Open a deli.

[dfwlens]

Originally Posted by CLfry

I do know that they have been using a popular Austin-based photographer

<breaks out popcorn watching to see if the Austing photographer is also TPF member>

[ndsimm]

either charge a proper professional fee or donate your time...

why are they no longer going with the Austin Professional? did they no longer like their work? their price?
What are you offering (other than cheap labor)?

[12stones]

The point is if you're going to be in business with your photography, then charge professional prices. I don't know if you're qualified or not, that's not what my point was... Even a new doctor has to get his feet wet in the real world. Just because they've been to medical school doesn't mean they're any good at patient care, have a good bedside manner, etc. They know the basics of medicine, like you should know the basics of photography. The rest needs to be learned by experience. As for the deli, your example doesn't match. Not having the sandwich you want, means you don't buy anything if you don't want to. Paying for a sandwich you asked for that's made incorrectly is a different story.

[CLfry]

Originally Posted by ndsimm

either charge a proper professional fee or donate your time...

Which is what I'm doing; donating my time as well as borrowing their product for my education... if they like what I produce, then they will pay for the use of my product.

Originally Posted by ndsimm

why are they no longer going with the Austin Professional? did they no longer like their work? their price?
What are you offering (other than cheap labor)?

As I pointed out earlier, it's a home builder feeling the current crunch and they are looking for a way to cut costs. By taking this on I will be helping to save my own full time job as well as entering work that I have been coveting for some time. They were happy with the other photog's work, but recognize that it is fat that can be trimmed. I can offer a similar product and style for much less. Perhaps not with the speed and consistency at first (I'm sure there will be re-shoots), but it will come. Also, as a designer for these model homes, I can offer a sensitivity to our product that others cannot.