Licensing full usage pics to a commercial company

[d2creative]

Hi, I'm trying to figure out pricing again.
I did a shoot for a local architectural firm that designed this office space.
http://bluelemonphoto.com/clients/context3/5120Woodway/

I was just contacted by the company that makes those glass walls/doors. They want to use a bunch of the images in their sales brochures, website, etc. The sales team is already asking for the photos. Any resources for coming up with a fair price for full usage licensing? I tried this... http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm but it doesn't let you specify full usage.

Advice?

Thanks!

[CaptainTom]

http://photographersindex.com/price-adv-calc.htmhttp://photographersindex.com/price-adv-calc.htm

These prices are presented as a guide for negotiation. All prices assume one time non exclusive reproduction rights. Copyright should NEVER be sold. There is NEVER a legitimate reason to transfer Copyright except to deny the creator of the image. All licensing is dependent upon payment of the licensing fee. Use is not licensed until payment is received. Higher or lower prices will apply depending on use, uniqueness of the image, suitability, prestige of the photographer, credit lines, and other factors that should be negotiated. Disclaimer: If this pricing program causes you distress, financial loss, or marital discord, we take no responsibility - If it increases your income, business success, or educational standing, you are not obligated to pay for its use

[d2creative]

Right, but isn't there a distinction between transferring copyright vs selling an image with unlimited usage? I'll still hold the copyright which means I can turn around and sell that same image to the people who make the desks, the carpet, etc.

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by d2creative

Right, but isn't there a distinction between transferring copyright vs selling an image with unlimited usage? I'll still hold the copyright which means I can turn around and sell that same image to the people who make the desks, the carpet, etc.

I suggest you take a look at this opinion:
http://courses.wccnet.edu/~donw/pdf/onaji/usage.pdf

[canoflan]

Originally Posted by d2creative

Right, but isn't there a distinction between transferring copyright vs selling an image with unlimited usage? I'll still hold the copyright which means I can turn around and sell that same image to the people who make the desks, the carpet, etc.

Yeah, I find most people think that licensing is selling the copyright, but it isn't. A copyright exists from the time you take the shot and belongs to the photographer, or the photographer who hired the shooter.

If you sell the copyright, then you sell any rights as to usage to the purchaser and they then can do as they wish with the photo. This means if the photographer who sold the copyright wants to sell or print the photo in the future, they have to get permission from the copyright purchaser.

A license usage agreement simply limits usage and is entirely up to the photographer on the extent of licensing since he owns the copyright.

Most new photographers in this business don't know this and really underprice their work when they sell copyrights and don't know they have and probably are printing and doing whatever they want with the sold photographs illegally.

Just a thought and this is from gleaning as much as possible from the legal writeups at PPA.
Pat

[d2creative]

So i've been doing some research and I've seen full usage sold for a specific time period like 2 or 3 years.

[texxter]

Originally Posted by d2creative

Hi, I'm trying to figure out pricing again.
I did a shoot for a local architectural firm that designed this office space.
http://bluelemonphoto.com/clients/context3/5120Woodway/

I was just contacted by the company that makes those glass walls/doors. They want to use a bunch of the images in their sales brochures, website, etc. The sales team is already asking for the photos. Any resources for coming up with a fair price for full usage licensing? I tried this... http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm but it doesn't let you specify full usage.

Advice?

Thanks!

Perhaps one of the reasons it doesnt include full usage is that most clients will not want it because it's too expensive. My suggestion would be to work out a license fee for the specific needs of the manufacturer, broken down by usage. They don't *need* full usage, really, only publication as part of marketing collateral and website. Full usage would give them more, like publication on a trade magazine, advertising everywhere, etc.

Just discuss with them what exactly they need and license that.

[zepp]

A tip...

When negotiating usage rights with clients get in the habit of using the word license and avoid using the words buy and sell.

[d2creative]

Originally Posted by texxter

They don't *need* full usage, really, only publication as part of marketing collateral and website. Full usage would give them more, like publication on a trade magazine, advertising everywhere, etc.

Just discuss with them what exactly they need and license that.

From talking with the communications director it sounded like they do want to use the pics for everything or at least have the option to. I did some more research on the company and they are a national, extremely well known outfit. Been around since 1914, changed their name to their current name in 1954 and have been publicly traded since 1998. Huge.

[Howard Barlow]

Try this.

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by Howard Barlow

Try this.

Nice find and thank you for the post. Not too terribly expensive when you consider how much you stand to gain by getting in the right ball park price range.

[d2creative]

Well it ends up the company wasn't interested in paying fair usage rights for even limited usage, let alone UNLIMITED like they asked for.
A billion dollar company that doesn't have the budget for inexpensive pics of their own products to give to their sales force? Yeahhhh..... riiiiight.
Guess they were looking for a sucker. Cya!

[canoflan]

Originally Posted by d2creative

Well it ends up the company wasn't interested in paying fair usage rights for even limited usage, let alone UNLIMITED like they asked for.
A billion dollar company that doesn't have the budget for inexpensive pics of their own products to give to their sales force? Yeahhhh..... riiiiight.
Guess they were looking for a sucker. Cya!

I understand you there. Reminds me of those that spend dollars upon dollars on entertainment equipment such as photography, motorcycles, and boats but don't have life insurance, wills, or powers of attorney for emergency situations to look after their family in case the unfortunate happens (assuming they are not single).

This photo deal for this company could have really helped them out, but you know what perhaps it isn't what you know, but what they are not telling you. One thing I have found is that you never know what they know and may have waiting in the wings in terms of other deals. In business, sometimes the best way to go is to simply play straight and either they take it or they don't and know when to walk away (which is probably the toughest thing to do).

Just some thoughts.

Pat

[texxter]

With the exception of ad agencies and other creative business that rely on outstanding imagery to sustain their businesses, the majority of individuals and companies have little understanding of and appreciation for images. Manyt think images should be free or near free. It's getting worse too.