Woah, youre expensive!

[Disney Chick]

That's true, Holly.

The business aspect is a touchy one. I think some of the posts were really referring to whether or not we are pros at running a business rather than whether or not we are pros at shooting. It's easy to get those things mixed up. I feel very good at my photography, but I don't feel good about my business sense. I'm a softie and tend to shoot for too little. If someone gets on here and tries to tell me that I don't shoot well enough to be called a pro, I'm gonna get mad. But if someone wants to preach at me about my poor business skills, I'm getting out my notepad! I'm growing in both areas, but I have to admit that I'm probably making a mess of the business side.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by Disney Chick

That's true, Holly.

The business aspect is a touchy one. I think some of the posts were really referring to whether or not we are pros at running a business rather than whether or not we are pros at shooting. It's easy to get those things mixed up. I feel very good at my photography, but I don't feel good about my business sense. I'm a softie and tend to shoot for too little. If someone gets on here and tries to tell me that I don't shoot well enough to be called a pro, I'm gonna get mad. But if someone wants to preach at me about my poor business skills, I'm getting out my notepad! I'm growing in both areas, but I have to admit that I'm probably making a mess of the business side.

I hear ya. And its a bad time to be trying to figure out the business side by trial and error. A note pad is far more prudent. :o)

[pbyd]

When I started charging for my photography in 1970 the “Pros” were shooting b&w on 4x5 cameras and felt that we newbie’s that shot medium format were someone to fear. Later in the 80’s when the “Pros” felt a threat from the 35 mm shooters they said you had to shoot medium format to be a “Pro”. Now with almost everyone using the same type camera (digital in a 35 type body) we “Pros” have no way to describe the newbie’s that we fear, and don’t know that there is nothing to fear. Everyone that makes a living as a full time photographer started as a newbie at sometime. I really do believe that the comments that seem as anger and fear is only this, that they have invested a large amount of money and time in a business called photography and with the onset of websites anyone with very little money or time can become a direct competition. Because there is no truth in advertising on the web people can say anything they want to and seem as though they are successful and have been in the business for many years, and most of the time it is all a lie. We have seen people with less that 5 years in photography use the web and forums like this to become “Rock Stars”. What is sad about this is these “Rock Stars” pass off information that is so very wrong if you want to make a living using photography. This and the number of photographers that only have a web site and specialize in “Location Photography” because they don’t have a studio and don’t have a clue how to really light a subject will not hurt any professional photography studio that can offer quality images in both lighting and posing. These two things will be what separates the “Pro” from what seems “Competition”. So everyone of us should just “Keep on Shooting”.

Originally Posted by Tedi17

Just because one is a professional photographer (working at it full time) doesn’t mean that there work is better than an amateur, let me tell you…
amateurs ARE giving the professionals a run for your money, this is fact… in all categories.

In a world of lay-offs people are going to start pursuing they’re passion and photography just might be that passion. I think professionals in this field should be prepared for that.

I think that you will find that many full-time pros do not have any problems with part-time pros.

While the definitions of pro a vary from person to person. One thing can not vary. . . the operation of a legal business.

I have heard most recently that there are "pros and Rock Stars" out there that have faced the music. Imagine my amazement when I learned that some so-called pros in this industry are in violation of tax laws. Imagine my amusement when I learn that they are getting investigated and fined for not being legal. Why amused? Because if you want to be in this industry, then the playing field should be the same for EVERYONE!!!

Art is subjective and whether or not someone likes my work is up to interpretation and that is the wonderful part of an open market. However, I have absolutley no respect or empathy for someone advertising themself as a pro that is not following the law, paying their taxes and all the other stuff that is required. I can not charge $12 for an 8x10 because I have obligations to the government (taxes) rent (can't operate in my home legally either), etc.

Yes, there is room for everyone but everyone needs to be on a level playing ground.

Meanwhile, I will sit back and enjoy watching the chips fall where they may. Someone out there is watching all of us very closely to make sure we are playing by the rules. Happily, I know I am and have no fear. I will not lose my business to the goverment or anyone else because I pretended to be a pro.

[Disney Chick]

Originally Posted by TLooney

I think that you will find that many full-time pros do not have any problems with part-time pros.

While the definitions of pro a vary from person to person. One thing can not vary. . . the operation of a legal business.

I have heard most recently that there are "pros and Rock Stars" out there that have faced the music. Imagine my amazement when I learned that some so-called pros in this industry are in violation of tax laws. Imagine my amusement when I learn that they are getting investigated and fined for not being legal. Why amused? Because if you want to be in this industry, then the playing field should be the same for EVERYONE!!!

Art is subjective and whether or not someone likes my work is up to interpretation and that is the wonderful part of an open market. However, I have absolutley no respect or empathy for someone advertising themself as a pro that is not following the law, paying their taxes and all the other stuff that is required. I can not charge $12 for an 8x10 because I have obligations to the government (taxes) rent (can't operate in my home legally either), etc.

Yes, there is room for everyone but everyone needs to be on a level playing ground.

Meanwhile, I will sit back and enjoy watching the chips fall where they may. Someone out there is watching all of us very closely to make sure we are playing by the rules. Happily, I know I am and have no fear. I will not lose my business to the goverment or anyone else because I pretended to be a pro.

I don't know if it's just the mood I'm in or not, but your post rubs me the wrong way. Some of us are doing the best we can to find out all of the little things that make a business legal/not legal, and to me, part of the reason for this forum's existence is to help people find the answers they need. When I get all my questions answered and feel secure that I'm doing all that I need to, I hope I don't turn into the kind of person who sits around laughing at others when they fall on their faces.

Not laughing at those who are honestly trying and still fail. Only laughing at those who think they can get away with breaking the law and get caught.

This board is full of information on how to be legal. It has been discussed over and over again. So basically, I find no excuse for people not to know. If a photographer is not collecting and remitting sales tax. I do not believe they did not know they had to.

And if someone wants to run around professing to be a pro and offer up advice they darn sure better be what they say they are.

And you have absolutely NO idea what kind of person I am. I have people coming to my studio all the time who are trying to break into this industy. I spend lots of time helping other people who will someday be my competition. I don't have sponsors and I don't get paid. But one thing is for sure, I am exactly who and what I profess to be.

[Disney Chick]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to miss something, even around here. I had a DBA for a long time and didn't know that I needed a tax certificate. My tax lady didn't even tell me. By the way, I got the advice about getting the DBA here, and I wasn't told anything else then. To me, it's not as simple as you make it sound. Some people don't have as much time to research these things, and some like me might just not realize that they've missed anything.

[pbyd]

Tina, You Go girl!

[threesistersphotography]

Most people feel that because they spend $$$'s on the newest fanciest SLR's and an average lens off the shelf can automatically take "professional" pictures..........Most of them do not know what half of the buttons do, much less when to use them...and know nothing of creating the image. That is where you have to set yourself apart by continuing with your art and let the cream rise to the top.

[Disney Chick]

.

[HotHolly]

OK, thread-jackers. Start you're own thread!

I thought it would have been far more helpful to talk about the nature of clients, client response, and educating clients. We didnt get there b/c you all wont drop this. Take it up on another thread.

[bellavistapro]

Originally Posted by kamari

I look at it like this:
Everybody posting their frustrations here works at the Mercedes dealership. Your product is top of the line and YOU know it because YOU put so much into engineering and perfecting the product. Steve and his wife walk in wanting a car. They look at your Mercedes and say holy s%!t that's nuts. Steve and his wife were never your type of customer to begin with. If they're not going to agree with the initial price then you can be assured that they're gonna disagree with extra bells, whistles, and service down the line. You can kindly point them in the direction of the Kia dealership down the street. You're not stealing business away from Kia, and Kia's not stealing business away from you.

The point I'm trying to make is that we, as photographers, do not have our vision totally in tune with the majority of the customers' visions. Its a catch 22 where we work to perfect our craft and then pass the cost of it on to our customer. Most times we go far far beyond what the customer needs, and then we charge them for it when they may or may not have needed that much quality anyway. In so many words, the majority want a car to get them from home to work and it doesn't have to cost them a year's salary worth of engineering and fine-tuning to do so. Now there's an elite group who have the money to spend for the luxury they want. Those are your target customers. I'd say don't sweat those who complain at your prices. You've got your Sorento drivers and you've got your S550 drivers, and both companies are doing very well.

To anyone preparing to jump on me please let me set the record straight and say that I'm all for charging what you believe your're worth, because there's a market out there who's also gonna believe that you are and will definitely appreciate it. The reality is that you must realize that not everyone wants a mercedes.

What he said ^^. Specially the part about showing them the door LOL. I had way too many issues when my pricing was dirt cheap. Now that i'm charging way more, i'm getting quality customers.