Bleh - Sams Club

[HotHolly]

Sams is now selling more stuff - canvases, poster prints, large prints, novelty items, and press books. They ran them in a 2 page spread in their Christmas book.

[Steelsun]

Yeah, they have a display for the stuff in some stores too. Some of the things are done off site and shipped back.

Sam's photo quality is an iffy chance. Usually they are "OK", especially if you can talk to them first and get them to disable color correction before they print your stuff.

Overall I have been satisfied with most of my stuff I have had printed there, and those they messed up I had them reprint.

[darrenwilson]

I've printed a lot of stuff for my family there and have been very happy with their quality. I have only done their large prints...in-store stuff...nothing that was ordered through a 3rd party. I've done several 20"-30" prints there and have been very pleased, considering they were like $14. They are hanging on the wall at home. We enjoy them every day. Good for them for bringing good quality products at a reasonable cost to the consumer.

[HotHolly]

You guys are funny. I thought it was a bad thing. It gives clients access to professional look-a-likes and they are using wedding images to push a lot of the stuff. Well, the stuff here anyway. Ive printed stuff there if its print there or die - they color correct/ mess up my stuff. I usually use Millers. Anyway, Im wondering what pro-like products will be up for grabs next.

[kenw]

Holly, is the 'pro-like' you refer to the size/paper/etc or is it the actual quality of the results?

Just because they print on canvas doesn't mean it's pro-like.

[darrenwilson]

I'm with Brian, when they see me at my local Sam's, they know I'm going to ask them to turn off the color correction for my run.

Seems to me they are selling pro-like products at "near" pro quality. For 95% of consumers, "almost great" results is perfectly acceptable. Sam's is capitalizing on that.

[brad]

Its the same "good enough" mentality that has all but completely dried up the "middle market" for photographers. Used to be that there was a good business to be made in those folks who knew they wanted better than Uncle Joe could do with the DSLR he got for his birthday... but didn't have the budgets to go to people like Fran (love Fran, but she does cater to a more luxury market than most middle class can afford)... but that market feels like its drying up.. maybe its the economy or maybe its these "pro-like" products that make them feel like they are getting a taste of the rich without breaking their budgets.

'Good Enough' sigh.

[texxter]

Brad, you're right with your comment.

In my opinion we photographers need to think differently about our value. In the past we could get away with a lot simply because consumers didn't have access to the equipment and pro lab processing we were using. These days the value a photographer brings cannot be based on these factors - it has to be something else - we have to produce images that Uncle Joe absolutely cannot do. While it is true that the market for this work is smaller, and only the best photographers will thrive, that's the nature of the business today. We can complain about it all we want, but the only way to win is to bring our photography to the next level and then work hard to find the client that will value and pay for a unique vision. It's been like this for a while in the commercial photography market and it's becoming the same for retail photography.

So I don't care if Sam has all these offerings. I will focus my energy on the content of the images I produce instead of where they are printed. I need to continue to educate customers that they are not paying for a print, they are paying for the image, and the skill, knowledge and creativity needed to create it. The photo industry is following the same path as the music or film industry - content is now decoupled from the media that used to support it - you can burn your own CDs and DVDs and what you pay for is the content. And it's a lot cheaper than it was before.

Evolve or die seems to be the requirement.

Just my opinion on this.

[KD5NRH]

Originally Posted by darrenwilson

I'm with Brian, when they see me at my local Sam's, they know I'm going to ask them to turn off the color correction for my run.

Next time I drop off a roll of BW400CN at WalMart, I'll have to remember to tell them not to screw with the colors and see what it looks like

Funny how the Walgreens photo guy understands it's supposed to be a bit undersaturated.

[HotHolly]

I have never gotten Sams Club photos to look like Millers. Sorry, but they dont look the same to me at all. I have printed out both and put them side by side. I know some of you will fight me to death on that, and if they work well for you and your subject matter - good for you. Personally, I think their skin tones get muddy on my dramatic shots, so there is my aversion.

As for Sams and their products - I agree with Brad's assessment. They are going after the middle market. They are creating more products aimed at the same consumers lots of middle market photographers are going after. They sell these products next to their DSLRs. No offense, but they are swinging the axe and hacking all those consumers from you.

Say your client walks into Sams Club - she sees your camera and sees your canvas and press books. And she sees you picking them up. Maybe Im the only one who sees the problem with that.

At any rate - the are expanding their market to include more products that are similar looking to pro products.

[CaptainTom]

Sam's club sells clothes. What do you expect to get there? Limited styles, limited sizes, average quality.
The same goes with their photo services. It is , as Brad said, "good enough".

Neiman Marcus sells clothes. What do you expect to get there ? Latest styles, big selection, superior quality. If they sold prints, they'd have them printed at Millers.

If you are losing customers to Sam's Club, you are marketing to the wrong people.

Go ahead, I'm flameproof........

[AndrewCCM]

Isn't Walmart discussing or already having minor emergency doctors at some stores?

I also think Walmart was one of the few companies that were not terribly affected by the recent stock market joy and continued to post profits last quarter...

Me personally. I despise Walmart/Sams. My reasons are based upon the fact that they have put most all mom and pop shops and middle American small businesses out of it. The charm that was little convenience stores and boutiques across the US are very few and far between these days. As demographics change in America, apparently so has the desire to pay for quality and perhaps have something different. Now most will just accept cheap mass produced junk from China. Thanks Walmart. Your founder, Sam would be rolling over in his grave. Rich..yes...but his small town "Made in America" ideals certainly aren't what this company is about now. It's about putting out as much junk as possible, price pressuring manufacturers to barely make profits, outsource as much as possible, put all competition out of business, and hire the displaced workers for $7 hr.

Anyway...what does this have to do with new photo products being offered? You decide.

Sorry for my rant. But that is how I feel and I am not afraid to voice it.

I'm outta here.

[HotHolly]

Ah, Tom, I was expecting people to flame me after what I said.

1st off - my Sams Club sells designer labels. The days where they sold overstock, outa date crap are behind them. It may vary from club to club, but from the ones I have seen here and in NY, they are the same. And stigmas are changing. WalMart is aiming dead center for upper middle class. That'd be a paradigm shift from what they started as, which carried the stigma.

On to why this affects your business. When products that had only been available to professionals are being offered to the general public it makes it all the harder to sustain your business. Mind you, my target demo is NOT middle class. Mine is upper class folks seeking heirloom portraits.

How does Sams Club's offerings affect me? It forces the need for photographers to differentiate even more than they already are. My clients wander in there to purchase their name brand what-have-yous, and pass by and see Sams print products. From a distance the mediums the image is printed on may look similar to mine. When I saw the press product my 1st thought was I should reconsider carrying Asuka. Theirs is a little clone. Im sure the quality sucks comparatively but its just another thing to explain. The less you have to explain, the easier it is to sell. See where this is going?

The more professional products become available to the general public, the harder it makes your job as a pro photographer. I've gotten to the point in my business where they KNOW they are paying for my brain, creativity, and skill. They say this to me. I dont even have to tell them anymore...But seeing similar products that they could purchase makes the sale harder.

And just to be clear: I do NOT think that the products OR the camera makes the photographer. That's all you babe. Your skill, your passion, your vision. However it is more difficult to sell intangible items - the consumer sees the product. And in their head, they bought the product.

When the canvases became available through the local stores, I changed what we were doing to only selling hand painted prints on canvas and raised my canvas prices. What prompted me to do that was a client asked why my canvas was so much more money. She's had something printed at Sams and was staring at mine. She wanted mine, and paid for mine, but it added an extra step IF the product wasnt unique enough. In my opinion, people gladly pay for stuff when the difference is 100% obvious. Hand painted is 100% obvious. Computers cant replicate the way I do it either. If they did, I would reexamine how to sell this product or drop it.

When new consumer products come into the market, it affects the photogs need to differentiate.

[texxter]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

The more professional products become available to the general public, the harder it makes your job as a pro photographer. I've gotten to the point in my business where they KNOW they are paying for my brain, creativity, and skill. They say this to me. I dont even have to tell them anymore...But seeing similar products that they could purchase makes the sale harder.

Holly, this depends on what your product is - if the product is the print, then this is a losing battle - the customer can get a print for a lot less at Costco or Sam's and the quality is good enough. If your product is the image, and you could care less whether you print it or the customer sends it to Walmart, then the product cannot be gotten anyplace else, only from you. While many insist on the old method of selling prints and never selling the digital image, a more future-looking business model is based on licensing the intangible image, not the actual print. That's how commercial photographers have been doing it, and it works for those that value imagery, not prints.

This is the same argument as software - customers are not paying for the physical DVD where Photoshop is burned; they are paying for the license, or the right to enjoy the product. We should educate our clientele that the print is not what they pay for, they pay for the right to enjoy our creation.

[*Mike*]

Paco, thing is, that transition in mentality has been destroying the industry. The majority of photogs feel compelled to compete on some basis - generally price or product. The availability of traditionally professional product lines to the consumer hurts the perceived value of those items. Make sense? Competing on price is obviously impossible. But, some exclusivity of products helps clients see the immediate value of a pro studio.

Consumer clients and commercial clients have very different frames of reference and expectations. With portraits and weddings, there is a very strong psychological element to the sale... at every price point. This trend of products moving into the public domain especially hurts those photogs that cater to middle class (and lower) clientele.

Anecdotal consideration... We had a client that spent just over $2k on their baby session. Then they came back for a canvas. Our canvases are priced as fine art (same as our prints.) When she heard the price, her first response was, "Really? I just bought one from xyz... for $x." Now, she still bought the canvas - but the frame of reference created an additional step for the sale. Now, if you're a photog that aims at soccer moms and you have that conversation, I doubt they'd as readily accept the higher price point b/c of the value of the image.

For us, it can add a step to the sale... For mid and low-priced photogs, they're going to feel it a lot more. Their clients really do walk out the door thinking they bought whatever is in their hands - they don't think in terms of licenses. At least our clients are typically of a mind-set that values labels and brands, not to mention art.