I think I screwed up: Advice needed

[Cajungaltx]

I do websites as a side interest - it started small - as a favor for someone that I knew who wanted a 'personal - pick up women' site... this was 8 years ago. My first website was one of those free Lycos sites.

I learned what I was doing as I went. Seriously. That same person, has a very busy business, decided a year later, to do something quite unusual, and put his calendar on the internet.

One of his clients loved that idea, and he referred me.... who referred me to someone else...who referred me to someone else. I now have more than 20 websites that I handle for several attorneys and other types of industries in Houston & Chicago.

I do this for 'extra' money - basically it funds my photography addiction. I don't market myself - if someone inquires on my services - I'll offer to do it. But mainly it's by referral.

I had someone refer a new person - who had a website. Not a 'bad' website - but I could see why they wanted an updated one. They had REALLY CRAPPY photos on it. I mean like REALLY crappy photos. draped white bed sheet or something.

They wanted a new website - I realized that a new website, with same crappy photos wouldn't work - so I threw in a 1 hour 'head shot' session to update their photos for the website. I did it because I knew it would benefit the overall effect - and I think the end goal is my main focus (which is probably why I get referrals, lol).

This was part of the package price for the new website - I didn't offer them 'rights' to the photos or anything. These are just for the website. It was just part of the overall 'you need to upgrade your 'website'.

I received an email from one of the partners this morning, asking for a jpg of one of the photos.

Ummmm....

Ummmmm......

Ummmmmmm.......

I'm not sure what to do.

On one hand - I don't want to say: Hey, you can't have those. But on the other hand - I did those as part of the overall website overhaul, not as part of their marketing/photography plan.

Would you offer them to him at a different price? Or would you just hand them over?

I think I'll probably benefit from the relationship, long term, with the referrals.

Maybe even the photography side of it because I did a fabulous job on their headshots, if I do say so myself. Although, I had LOTS Of room for improvement on what they had.

Our contract doesn't say anything other than this:

I will provide a one hour photography session, on location, to provide professional quality images for the website.

That's it.

Advice? Slap me? Suggestions.

I swear, I'm writing out a 15 page contract that covers EVERY contingency under the sun. I swear.

[CaptainTom]

I would consider the images as being shot as part of the "work for hire".
Since it's not likely that these headshots would produce more income for you, you aren't really losing anything by giving them the images to use. They probably want them for business cards, newsletter, press releases, etc.
You might let them know that the original intent was for the web site only, but if they use them for press releases, etc. it would be nice to give you photo credit if possible.
I run into this quite often, and how I handle it just depends on what they want to use the images for, and if those images have any future potential value to me.

I'd slap you but then you'd slap me back, I'd slap you again, you'd slap me back, .....just might get to be too much fun.

[SevenAndMe]

To me, a non lawyer and just ordinary dude, you sort of gave them the 'right' to ask for a copy of what you put on their new website because:

A. It's now on their web site
B. The photo session that they paid for produced the photos for the web site.

And then there's C. - You expect future referrals from this.

Good luck.

[carrbowl]

Do you know what they plan on doing with the photo?

[Jeff Lane]

As a good lawyer always does, I’m going to answer your question this way: “There’s at least two answers to your question.”

The strictly legal answer (assuming you’ve quoted all the pertinent language from your short contract) is that you probably have the legal right to refuse them any further access to or use of your photos without receiving other compensation. You gave them a limited license to use your work within the Web site you created for them, and between you, you negotiated the compensation for that limited copyright license.

BUT – there are business relations and human considerations, too. (Notice that the legal answer is sometimes completely devoid of any human considerations – it only presumes to guess at what you can strictly enforce if you want to.) For example, do you like these guys? Have they treated you fairly in the past, enough so that you’re willing to give them a break now? Does it cost you anything to just tell them to go ahead and use the image for whatever else they have in mind (in effect, giving them a much broader copyright license)? Could giving them a broader license now lead to them bringing you some lucrative referrals in the future?

Assuming you like these guys, and they have been fair with you in the past, and they could refer other business to you, I would probably give them broader use of the images. BUT YOU SHOULD ASK THEM WHAT THEY HAVE IN MIND, FIRST. That way, (1) they know you know you have copyrights and are paying attention to them, and (2) you know where the images might be used, and whether you want to try to negotiate some kind of compensation for that use (or even whether you can sell them on a new paying shoot that will meet their needs better than the images they are already looking at).

At the risk of making this an even longer post, allow me to relate a real-life parable. I have a wonderful client that operate a wine store in Duncanville. Every Thursday and Friday, every customer in the store is offered some free samples of new wines they have gotten in lately, or have overstocked, or are just excited about. Do they need to give out free wine? Nope. Do they always wind up selling the wine they sample? Nope. Do I enjoy it anyway? Yesirree. And I often buy more wine than I otherwise would have. And I only buy wine from them, even though their prices are the same as wine in places like the grocer and Costco, where I already am for other reasons. In this case, giving something away means bringing something bigger back.

Good luck.

[HotHolly]

It's a head shot. If you like doing head shots, personally, Id use it to generate more business. You can also sell the file based on it uses...low res jpg has a different price than a high res 20x40.

I'd think using this situation to generate more business and then thinking ahead for next time a client needs photos - they have the option to purchase the file at these prices, etc. Ya know what I mean? You spliced 2 businesses together, which Id say is a smart move. You just need to work out the kinks.

[epoh]

Definitely ask what they want it for. Who knows, their wife may have told them she loved it and he wants to get a print for her, or they could planning on using it on a billboard!

[Concisus Cognatus]

Goodwill functions as a virtual boomerang. Always has, always will.

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by Concisus Cognatus

Goodwill functions as virtual boomerang. Always has, always will.

Took me a while to decipher this.
I kept thinking "what does the Goodwill or Salvation Army" have to do with anything.?"

It is true ..

[Concisus Cognatus]

Originally Posted by CaptainTom

Took me a while to decipher this.
I kept thinking "what does the Goodwill or Salvation Army" have to do with anything.?"

It is true ..

LoL

[jkderby]

Let them us it. More referrals lay ahead from it. Give a little away to gain twice as much. In todays economy referrals from goodwill are worth their weight in gold.

[Cajungaltx]

Thanks everyone - I emailed it to them - it's for a mass postcard mail out that they are sending out for one of their new folks. They liked my photo better than the one that the new folks brought in that she had taken at one of the local box stores. (HA HA HA).

[toverman]

The debate rages on about this, but next time you could raise your prices and include digital files that could be printed up to a certain size. In some circles, people expect to get those files. Make them pay!

[Teddington]

Cool, did you get a photo by credit? FWIW, I think you did the right thing and combining the two business skills will set you apart.

[Cajungaltx]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

It's a head shot. If you like doing head shots, personally, Id use it to generate more business. You can also sell the file based on it uses...low res jpg has a different price than a high res 20x40.

I'd think using this situation to generate more business and then thinking ahead for next time a client needs photos - they have the option to purchase the file at these prices, etc. Ya know what I mean? You spliced 2 businesses together, which Id say is a smart move. You just need to work out the kinks.

Thanks Holly - I've got ADD & ADHD and I'm just not good at doing 'one thing' at a time. I will adjust the contract however to sell the files separately for the next site.

Cajungaltx added 1 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by Teddington

Cool, did you get a photo by credit? FWIW, I think you did the right thing and combining the two business skills will set you apart.

They just got the file - I don't think they normally put 'photo by so and so' on the card - but this is a high dollar firm, with LOTS of high dollar clients - so it will serve me well in the long run.

I appreciate your input.