Starting new business and giving discounts -- what do you do?

[lisakitty]

I'm still very new at my business so as a result I've been giving huge discounts to a lot of people so that I can build up my portfolio and gets lots of fresh faces on my website. But I think I'm starting to get screwed. I've been offering free sitting fees and then the customer just chooses the portraits they want to buy and pays me my package and ala carte prices for the prints they want -- or they can buy the CD from me at the price I have listed on my site. At first I was doing it absolutely free just charging wholesale prices for prints (that was just family and close friends). Now I've done a couple of sessions in the past couple of weeks where I don't charge a session fee, present the customer the shots online and listen to them ooh and aah and hear how wonderful they think they are and then... nothing. No orders, just a promise to place an order soon.

How long do I wait? I know everyone is busy and nobody has money lately, but I feel like I've been really working hard and not getting paid. My calendar is full for the next few weeks with customers that I offered the free session fee to and I'm worried I'm going to be doing an awful lot of work with no paycheck.

What do you think is a fair discount that will actually get me some upfront paying customers?

[Gateruner]

Personally I think your business model needs to change. I like setting up packages that are pre-paid. You have your money up front and your client wants the images since they paid for them. The other problem could be they are screen capturing the online shots and saying "see ya". Usually the client you discount the most will want the most from you for the least amount of money. Better off to charge a realistic amount for sessions and prints and let the biz build from there doing it the right way. It may start slow but at least your referrals will be ready to pay your fees because the referrer did. If you give it to them for free they are going to refer people who want the same deal. Not a good business model.

[lisakitty]

Thanks Scott. That's what I was afraid of. So I guess I should still honor my original deal with these people on the calendar but then start charging the fee upfront for any new appointments.

[toverman]

I agree with Scott.

Once your business gets rolling, the best advertising in the world will be the referrals from past customers. But you don't want past customers telling the world that they didn't pay anything (or hardly anything) for their photographs. You won't be building a client base that will sustain your business, and you'll get frustrated.

I don't see anything wrong with building your portfolio by offering great deals to friends and family. You don't have to make a big stink about, but let them know that if they mention you and your services to their friends make sure it's clear that you will be charging everybody else the full and fair rate!

Incentives aren't a bad idea, such as giving customers something extra. But giving away anything for free isn't so good, as everything has value. It's a good idea to convey that value to clients or else it won't mean as much to them.

Also, just to throw out there (stuff you probably already took care of): make sure you've got your state sales tax ID number and pay sales taxes; develop a contract and use it for all your sessions, paid or unpaid, and include your ability to use the images in your public portfolio, among many other things; look into insurance; see about marketing, business and photo classes to help you refine your technique and find your style; and don't give up!

[ShaneKislack]

Yep, bad business model.

[bondarnes]

Originally Posted by lisakitty

Thanks Scott. That's what I was afraid of. So I guess I should still honor my original deal with these people on the calendar but then start charging the fee upfront for any new appointments.

I suggest you still honor the free sessions on the book, but mention that there is a $100.00 minimum order that needs to be paid before the session. Those that run away were not planning on buying from you anyway so no loss there.

In the future you might want to consider pre-paid session fees to guarantee that they show up or at least call to say there is a problem. Nothing worse than getting everything ready and then wait and wait and they never show or call because they have nothing invested. Have you made any hotel reservations lately without confirming the first night with a credit card?

[HotHolly]

Thats the problem with starting like this. The exception becomes the rule (eg free sessions). If you were wanting these people generate WOM, it wont work. The WOM they will generate will want free and at cost stuff like they got. btw - when you start this way you usually end up upside down.

If you want to portfolio build - be selective in who you choose. It is quite possible that by offering freebies to everyone you know that you undermined your legit biz. You dont want to get labeled as the free guy. Anyway, be selective. And if you want to offer a perk (besides the free session) prints at cost is WAY too generous.

Im building a side of my biz right now. I offered 4 women, who I hand picked, a complimentary session (saves them $400). If they want to purchase prints from the session, they have to do so @ proofing to get the discounted rate. One order only at that rate. I made it very clear that this is a HUGE favor to them. It helps me get what I need and they feel like they won the lottery. Win win.

Part of it is that they know how much we usually cost. What you are giving must have a perceived value, otherwise 'free' is just another way of saying junk. btw - I started our entire business with one couple. Thats it. When I started my baby side of the biz - there were only 2 babies. No one noticed. You dont need a ton of different people to get your foot in the door.

[lisakitty]

Thanks everyone. I did protect the images I've already taken so they couldn't be right clicked and downloaded. I'm thinking of taking them down at the 3-week mark and forcing them to call me when they realize they're no longer online. And maybe placing a few calls myself to spur someone into action.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by lisakitty

Thanks everyone. I did protect the images I've already taken so they couldn't be right clicked and downloaded. I'm thinking of taking them down at the 3-week mark and forcing them to call me when they realize they're no longer online. And maybe placing a few calls myself to spur someone into action.

Right click won't protect them as much as you think it will.

If you want to proof online, give everyone a two week period before you take the pictures down, and make them buy more time if they want three or four weeks. But when their time is up, pics come down.

Some people only do a 4-7 day online proofing, which builds more urgency to buy pics. However, if you have already told them you can store them online for them to link to forever, don't just delete them.

Let your customers know that by policy that you keep pictures online for a set period of time, don't just pull the rug out from under them. Bad business.

[Gateruner]

Originally Posted by lisakitty

Thanks everyone. I did protect the images I've already taken so they couldn't be right clicked and downloaded. I'm thinking of taking them down at the 3-week mark and forcing them to call me when they realize they're no longer online. And maybe placing a few calls myself to spur someone into action.

Sorry to say, I can screen capture your photo and have it in usable JPG state in about 30 seconds and that is including getting a photo editor going to crop the shot. If it goes on the net it can be taken. Your options are to cover them with copyright notices or not post them. Lots of sides to this argument. Even if you place the copyright across the middle of the photo your clients will copy it and use it. We had a couple do just that with their e-session and post them on Facebook. Dumb. We sell the images on disc so it isnt a big concern for us but we get the money up front and the price for the disc makes up for our lost income on post shoot sales.

Like Holly says, find a great couple that you can shoot and build your business around. Then charge for your service. If you feel you need some more portfiolio material go do a workshop and use some of those images. The free thing will be the fastest way for you to lose money and never break into the client base you should be wanting. It isnt easy but it can be done. Then you get to enjoy all the fun of running a business. Taking pictures is the easy part.

[J Eddington]

Consider no online proofing. Let them come back and place the order. Show photo's on your calibrated monitor or project. Photos only go online after they have purchased!

[dtscds]

I guess I don't have anything to add really except to echo what others have said. My wife and I went to a workshop with Mike--Mr. HotHolly. He told us to set our prices where we WANT them to be. Then, if you really need to build some buzz, pick out certain people and give them 'discounts' off of your 'real' prices. Again, there is a value to the perception of what something is worth. If it's free is it really any good? Doesn't really matter if it is or it isn't, the 'perception' is that it's junk. You could be taking amazing images but the perception will be that you are WalMart quality.
Count me in with the voices that are calling for you to change you model.

[lisakitty]

Okay you guys have given me a lot to think about and my husband and I agree. The freebies stop here. I will honor 3 cheap sessions that are already on my calendar but anyone else from here on out has to pay the full session fee upfront. I am signed up for two workshops coming up in the next few months and will be using those to finish out my portfolio. I also have a couple of sessions with models from Model Mayhem for boudoir photos that I'm doing TFCD with because I have no friends or relatives available for that kind of work.

I really didn't expect to get so many calls so early on. It kind of caught me off guard. I had people offering me money for photos before I even knew what to charge. I'm learning!

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by dtscds

My wife and I went to a workshop with

Mike--Mr. HotHolly.

LMAO! Im gonna tell him you said that!

HotHolly added 6 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by dtscds

He told us to set our prices where we WANT them to be.

lol. I thought that was so funny, I couldnt think. OK, this isnt any new idea - you just have to have enough guts to do it. AND you have to constantly strive to be worth the price point you choose and know why you cost what you choose.

My reasons -

1. we sell art.
2. you cant pay me enough to deal with cheap people - neither can they - so I set the bar where they wont follow. (i found we butt heads with the soccer mom demo - they are resentful and very time consuming. time hogs piss me off.)
3. we sell art.
4. i want to sell art to people who value art - therefore they value its price tag, my opinion, and me.
5. we sell art.
6. im a perfectionist and i want to be able to spend all the time i want on something before i hand it over.

There are other models. That's mine.

[HeatherLou]

One thing that I have started doing is projection proofing, THEN the proofs go online, AFTER they have made there first order. If you can't do projection proofing, do paper proofs, get that order, then you can put them online for friends and family to purchase.

I have taken several of the things Don and Holly talk about and it has tripled my business! So pay attention to them!