Seniors?

[digitalpixels]

I'm lightly thinking of possibly starting to shoot seniors. I haven't decided completely yet, it's just something I'm thinking about.

As I don't do photography for a living right now, & I have some questions. So please bare with me.

Marketing
- How do I market seniors?
- Is the majority of clients based from mailings (which can get expensive, and not sure how to even get names), or is it newspapers, yearbooks, online?
- Do I need any other kind of marketing materials?
- I obviously need to start marketing now, for next year's seniors, and I'm not sure how to go about that.

Shoot
- Do I need to have any forms filled out by the senior or the parent? (I shoot models so I'm used to getting model releases signed)
- Is it a good idea to get a deposit beforehand & then the remainder at the shoot?
- Do I need to set any other "rules" at the shoot?

Post
- How many images do I edit, or allow the senior to pick?
- Do I just pick a select number of "proofs," and have them pick a certain number?
- Should I give out a cd, prints, or both? Do I need to offer any other kind of materials, such as books?
- Is most % of money made from session fees or prints?
- Should I have them just fill out some kind of form for prints, or do it all online? If online, how exactly?
- What should the turnaround time be from shoot to delivery of product/images?

Like I mentioned, I'm not 100% sure I want to do this, but am thinking about it. And if I do do this, I'll need some of those questions answered by those who do shoot seniors, and are profitable from it.

I definitely don't want to do the normal, boring senior shoots that most high schools hire. I have a portrait & modeling background with my photography, so if I do seniors, it would be all outdoor, urban, with a fashion edge.

Thanks in advance!

[zebulus]

When you find out how to market to seniors let me know. All the seniors in the houston area ive talked to expect to get pictures for free. >_<

[kimberley]

Emily,

I am no expert by any means but here is my 2 cents so take it for whatits worth.

I am "starting" to shoot senior, I would love to be 80% senior based with in 2 years, I still have alot to learn :)


The marketing I do is with senior reps, I have a blog and a facebook page, thats how I am starting to get my name out there. I had one rep last year from 1 school I wanted to focus all my attention but didnt want to get to overloaded. She was an FANTASTIC Rep, she sent me 17 seniors and I have gotten 2 more today from her.

I dont mass mail anything to expensive and low response. I have always been a big fan of referrals that to me is the best marketing :)

Yes you need to start yesterday for next years seniors.

As far as post production, I think that is personal preference.

I show 25-40 images.
I have a mini order amount
I offer all the goodies ( with the mini of coarse)
I dont cell my digital negatives ( control issue for me)
Dont under price yourself but dont jump into it if your not ready.

My turnaround varies...2 weeks for proofs 3-4 weeks for prints depending on what they order.

Hope that helps a little again I am no pro Im just starting out in this myself.

Do alot ALOT of research, talk with senior, juniors, sopho. to see what they like what they are wanting to get a better feel of what you need to do.

Again my 2 cents :)


You need a model release which includes clauses about facebook, blogs etc.

Yes you need a session fee to be taken seriously.

No rules Senior are usually better behaved than the parents ;)

[khanhfat]

good info and portfolio Kimberly :D.

I'll just think of seniors photoshoot are similar to casual fashion shoot. Looks like this is defenitely a field I should look forward to .

[tresorph]

that was a whole lotta answers there. kimberely - your too nice.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by digitalpixels

I'm lightly thinking of possibly starting to shoot seniors. I haven't decided completely yet, it's just something I'm thinking about.

As I don't do photography for a living right now, & I have some questions. So please bare with me.

Marketing
- How do I market seniors?
- Is the majority of clients based from mailings (which can get expensive, and not sure how to even get names), or is it newspapers, yearbooks, online?
- Do I need any other kind of marketing materials?
- I obviously need to start marketing now, for next year's seniors, and I'm not sure how to go about that.

Your overall marketing should correspond with your biz plan. Some people give stuff away for free to get started. I think that usually gets you bit on the butt, b/c then the referrals it generates are people saying they got you for free and everyone else feels like they didnt get a good deal. That spreads bad WOM imho.

So, to get going, you need photos of seniors and the releases. If you are a photog and know your stuff, albeit in another segment of photography, you should be able to charge the same session fee you would for your other photography. When I 1st had seniors come to me I told them I only shoot weddings. They didnt care. They wanted me.

If you want to do the free sessions - hand pick someone that fits the kind of client you want to attract. Make sure they are connected to the social group you want your work circulating in. Tell that person that you were going to hire a model for a new ad piece you are doing, but she works even better with her girl next door look or what ever. In exchange for the modeling fee, you'll waive your session fee, which is usually $XZY. She knows how much you cost and she knows the session has value.

Ad pieces - YES. Website, myspace, & facebook are a must. Also have cards to hand out to ANY high school girl you see. If you hand it directly to them, they are more likely to respond. Tell them they have the perfect look to be on your site - here's a card for free wallets, 10% off, or whatever if they book by ______.

Shoot
- Do I need to have any forms filled out by the senior or the parent? (I shoot models so I'm used to getting model releases signed)
- Is it a good idea to get a deposit beforehand & then the remainder at the shoot?
- Do I need to set any other "rules" at the shoot?

Yes to all. Parent and senior sign the forms unless the senior is over 18 years old. If senior is over 18 and parent pays, parent signs too.

We take the full session fee to BOOK the appointment. Period. Flakes are an issue and when no money is at play, lots of people flake.

We do - can bring X # of friends, no other cameras, so many outfits, so many locations, location fees at these places cost $XYZ...etc.

Post
- How many images do I edit, or allow the senior to pick?
- Do I just pick a select number of "proofs," and have them pick a certain number?
- Should I give out a cd, prints, or both? Do I need to offer any other kind of materials, such as books?
- Is most % of money made from session fees or prints?
- Should I have them just fill out some kind of form for prints, or do it all online? If online, how exactly?
- What should the turnaround time be from shoot to delivery of product/images?

We show 10 final proofs with each session. We do extensive PP on all the images. I pick them. Others do things differently. That works well for us b/c of our prices and Im a control freak. In terms of how many to give - its usually better to give a range in the beginning if you cant tell what a session will typically yield. I always contract for 10 shots and shoot for 12 magazine style WOWers.

As for session fee or prints - depends on how you set up your biz structure. Ive meet successful photos that do it both ways. Main thing is that it MUST make sense to you. Our most $$ thing is prints. We do not require a print purchase. They book the session for $375 and have no obligation beyond that. Most our session gross around $1700 total. Dont price the CD too cheap - you'll shoot yourself in the foot and never sell more than what that CD is worth.

Our turn around time is usually 2-3 weeks on portrait sessions. We do not do online proofing. This is why- (i cut and paste it from our website - there is a what to expect section on there that has more info).

At your proofing session, your images will be presented to you on a computer or projector in our private studio. You get to see only the best of the best, and totally processed shots from your session. We do not put proofs online for ordering. Different monitors will make your portraits appear differently. When you see your proofs in the studio we can be assured that you are seeing an accurate representation of what you are going to purchase. You can choose what prints and products you would like to order at your proofing session. You may bring anyone with you to your session who is interested in ordering prints and products. Most people know exactly what they want and order on the spot.


I overheard a girl say once that all our images were green and she thought they were horrible. I was standing behind her and adjusted her monitor. Problem is, once people see that, they remember green. This was a work place computer. I went to see the client at work to deliver her paper proofs since she couldnt come to me. She and her friend were looking at the online gallery when I walked in and they didnt see me. Anyway, like I said - control freak. Why spend all that time making sure everything is PERFECT and then have a crappy monitor botch your reputation?

And thingie #2 - you will always sell more in person. My 1st $1700 sale was done at someone's coffee table before I had the studio. She liked everything so much, I pointed and said I do this with that one and this with that one, and we have these little books if you spend more than XYZ they are only $150 each. She bought 3 of those, a wall print, a frame...it was awesome. That NEVER happened with any online sales. Session online typically grossed $600. Add to that the monitor issues and Im so done with online proofing. Weird but true. Others may have a better run at it, but I didnt.

Hope that helped a little.

HotHolly added 6 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

ps - you could apply all that to any portrait session - not just seniors. ;o)

[gregt1310]

Very thoughtful and insightful response Holly. Thanks for sharing!

[toverman]

Just chiming in to mark the thread. Good stuff!

[Cajungaltx]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

Your overall marketing should correspond with your biz plan. Some people give stuff away for free to get started. I think that usually gets you bit on the butt, b/c then the referrals it generates are people saying they got you for free and everyone else feels like they didnt get a good deal. That spreads bad WOM imho.

So, to get going, you need photos of seniors and the releases. If you are a photog and know your stuff, albeit in another segment of photography, you should be able to charge the same session fee you would for your other photography. When I 1st had seniors come to me I told them I only shoot weddings. They didnt care. They wanted me.

If you want to do the free sessions - hand pick someone that fits the kind of client you want to attract. Make sure they are connected to the social group you want your work circulating in. Tell that person that you were going to hire a model for a new ad piece you are doing, but she works even better with her girl next door look or what ever. In exchange for the modeling fee, you'll waive your session fee, which is usually $XZY. She knows how much you cost and she knows the session has value.

Ad pieces - YES. Website, myspace, & facebook are a must. Also have cards to hand out to ANY high school girl you see. If you hand it directly to them, they are more likely to respond. Tell them they have the perfect look to be on your site - here's a card for free wallets, 10% off, or whatever if they book by ______.



Yes to all. Parent and senior sign the forms unless the senior is over 18 years old. If senior is over 18 and parent pays, parent signs too.

We take the full session fee to BOOK the appointment. Period. Flakes are an issue and when no money is at play, lots of people flake.

We do - can bring X # of friends, no other cameras, so many outfits, so many locations, location fees at these places cost $XYZ...etc.



We show 10 final proofs with each session. We do extensive PP on all the images. I pick them. Others do things differently. That works well for us b/c of our prices and Im a control freak. In terms of how many to give - its usually better to give a range in the beginning if you cant tell what a session will typically yield. I always contract for 10 shots and shoot for 12 magazine style WOWers.

As for session fee or prints - depends on how you set up your biz structure. Ive meet successful photos that do it both ways. Main thing is that it MUST make sense to you. Our most $$ thing is prints. We do not require a print purchase. They book the session for $375 and have no obligation beyond that. Most our session gross around $1700 total. Dont price the CD too cheap - you'll shoot yourself in the foot and never sell more than what that CD is worth.

Our turn around time is usually 2-3 weeks on portrait sessions. We do not do online proofing. This is why- (i cut and paste it from our website - there is a what to expect section on there that has more info).

At your proofing session, your images will be presented to you on a computer or projector in our private studio. You get to see only the best of the best, and totally processed shots from your session. We do not put proofs online for ordering. Different monitors will make your portraits appear differently. When you see your proofs in the studio we can be assured that you are seeing an accurate representation of what you are going to purchase. You can choose what prints and products you would like to order at your proofing session. You may bring anyone with you to your session who is interested in ordering prints and products. Most people know exactly what they want and order on the spot.


I overheard a girl say once that all our images were green and she thought they were horrible. I was standing behind her and adjusted her monitor. Problem is, once people see that, they remember green. This was a work place computer. I went to see the client at work to deliver her paper proofs since she couldnt come to me. She and her friend were looking at the online gallery when I walked in and they didnt see me. Anyway, like I said - control freak. Why spend all that time making sure everything is PERFECT and then have a crappy monitor botch your reputation?

And thingie #2 - you will always sell more in person. My 1st $1700 sale was done at someone's coffee table before I had the studio. She liked everything so much, I pointed and said I do this with that one and this with that one, and we have these little books if you spend more than XYZ they are only $150 each. She bought 3 of those, a wall print, a frame...it was awesome. That NEVER happened with any online sales. Session online typically grossed $600. Add to that the monitor issues and Im so done with online proofing. Weird but true. Others may have a better run at it, but I didnt.

Hope that helped a little.

HotHolly added 6 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

ps - you could apply all that to any portrait session - not just seniors. ;o)

Is it okay if I start a worship group for you? *grin*
Great advise!

[digitalpixels]

Thanks, Holly!

This was great information, and helps me out. I'm gonna go through with it a fine comb and iron everything out.

[J Eddington]

You can always advertise on craigslist!
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/crs/1134487647.html

[bondarnes]

When you are to the serious point on this you need to attend one of the senior classes at Texas School. Larry Peters or Colleen Gonsar & Darty Hines would be my top picks. Jen Hillenga also covers seniors and Steve Kozak covers the basics of starting a photography business including seniors. Unfortunately all of these classes are full for this year. If you are ready to do this next year you need to sign up in January during the first hour of registration.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by Cajungaltx

Is it okay if I start a worship group for you? *grin*
Great advise!

When you think of failure as a learning curve and you learn really fast. ;o) Someone remind me that periodically. hee hee.

[digitalpixels]

Is there any contract samples I can adapt from? Or do I just make up a simple one with a list of "rules"?

[scottalanphoto]

honestly.... i set my prices starting out in 2007 at 20 for a session fee... prints started out at 20.. i know thats cheap..... i had 3 or 4 seniors that year... in 08 i raised my prices.... session fee 25 and prints 29.... i shot about 15 seniors last year.... this year in 09 i've raised my prices again... 40 for the session fee and prints start at 29.. in the last 9 weeks i've done 8 senior sessions... i have one for next week as well...

i just uped my pricing to 55 for the session fee and 35 for prints...

i've had people compare my prices others in the area and they end up going with me because i do both studio and outside pictures for 40, well now 55.... my sessions last about two hours and they get three outfit changes... i edit some of the pictures if necessary and upload them to my site where they can view and order the proofs online... i tell them i'll have the proofs ready within 7 to 10 business days and once they place their order they will get the prints within 7 to 10 business days... some photographers might not agree with what i do but i'm happy with it, the clients have been happy as well... and my business is steadily becoming more and more of a major income source for my wife and i

myspace myspace myspace... that's been the way i've gotten my business.... google "friend blaster pro" download the trial version... it's free... do a search for people within say a 50 mile radius... ages 18 to 18... or just add everyonewithin that radius... with the trial version you can only add 50 a day.... about half of the ones i've done so far this year have been by word of mouth!!!

make sure you get model releases... expecially if you want to use their photos to advertise with... go to mom and pop shops and restraunts... see if you can put up some of your work on the walls... or lay your business cards out!!!

senior reps can also be another good way but i personally have not had good luck with doing that...

feel free to check out my sites at www.scottalanphoto.com and www.myspace.com/scottalanphoto

if you have myspace hit me up :)