Boudoir fallout

[jblaschke]

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[brad]

Welcome to life in the Bible Belt.

Yes, if you are going to offer it, you have to keep it separate. No one (around here) wants to see pictures of their child or their nearly adult senior next to partially naked women.

[jonnydonut]

wow. sounds like that's a good daycare client to get rid of. Hopefully the parents aren't blabber mouths that spread gossip and lies. This is might a sign not to offer it, maybe to not even pursue photography as a full time job. Might is the key word there. If yall think this is what she is supposed to do, then maybe an easy solution is to password protect those galleries. That's especially easy with her smugmug. Then only those interested in boudoir would contact her and ask for the password.

Comparing that to porn is ridiculous. Without even debating content, porn are photographs with the intention of making money by others looking at them. She does private shoots intended for private use for private people. remember there's a small market for boudoir and a small number of people offering because the culture here just can't handle it.

[kneemeaux]

Anything involving people's kids automatically triggers an emotional reaction. Once emotion kicks in all logic goes out the window. It doesn't matter that your wife's other work is milder than TV (the same TV that they let those same kids watch unsupervised no doubt), anything even approacing "adult content producer" in close proximity to their kids can (and, as you have seen, has) result in a reaction far out of proportion to reality.

You should probably keep all the boudior stuff completely separated from anything related from the kids, not even in the same physical location. Even then you still run the risk "word getting around".

Just my $/50.

[janetg]

i agree - children and adult photography do not mix - period. you never know how people are going to react, so it's better to err on the safe side of things.

[krisnashley]

I would recommend just putting on her price page that she takes boudoir photos. Then say inquire if interested in seeing samples of my work. Another idea is to put a password protected where someone could send her an e-mail if they would like to view her boudoir work and then she could give them the password to view that folder. Just my two cents.

[snydersnapshots]

Originally Posted by jblaschke

Here's the thing, a family who my wife has provided home daycare for their children for FIVE years just pulled their daughter because of the boudoir. All but accused my wife of being a pornographer, and flat-out said "none of those girls look of age." No two-weeks notice, just contempt. Now, my wife had provided several portrait sessions for them--their children and families--gratis in exchange for using the images on the website and her portfolio. They demanded all come down. Since there was no model release--yeah, we know--we've complied. But the nasty verbal attack against my wife has her shaken and wracked with self-doubt. She's questioning whether she should even offer boudoir, even pursue the photography career. It really has her rattled.

I'm sorry to hear about your dilemma. I checked out your wife's site and didn't see anything that I would consider a major problem--your wife does beautiful work and it would be a shame to see her turn away from her dream over one sour apple.

I'll admit up front that I don't do studio work (though it's something I would like to get into down the road), so I can't speak from experience--I'll leave that to others on here. I do have some ideas that I hope will help.

First--have you had any issues with the "problem" family in the past? Could they be using this as a way to take their child out of your wife's daycare for other reasons (budget, time for a "change" etc)? Are they members of an ultra-conservative religion or other group (not making any judgments or opinions here, just looking for a reason for the issue)?

Second--since they made accusations about your models being "underage," (the only thing they look "underage" for in my opinion is being elected president--ya gotta be 35 for that) I would suggest getting age documentation from the models involved for "cya" purposes in case the offended parents try to bring other parties into the equation. I wouldn't give it a second thought if you weren't running a daycare, but when kids are involved the authorities often act first and ask questions later. If someone does come knocking and you have documentation already, it may go a long way to prevent the situation from becoming bigger. I will be interested to read the thoughts of those with more experience on this one.

Third--It sounds like your wife runs a relatively small daycare operation. Would there be a possibility of meeting with the other parents and explaining what you're doing? Not asking permission, of course, but communicating what you're doing, emphasizing the fact that this is NOT porn and the people being photographed are NOT underage. I think communication from your wife is important also to prevent the disgruntled parents from causing problems with other parents who have kids at your wife's daycare. I think it is obvious to the reasonable person that your wife is trying to provide a full range of photographic services--if she were doing "porn" she probably wouldn't put it on a family site under her own name...


Fourth--In the short-term, you might consider including only the more "conservative" boudoir photos on your site--at least until this thing blows over. The two I'd consider holding back are the b/w photos of the lady on her back with her hands covering her breasts, and the photo of her with her back to the camera and the sillouhette of her bare breast. I'm not prudish and I wouldn't suggest it had there not been a problem. After your wife goes full-time with this, I'd have no problem with these photos being in the site. I have noticed that each time the website is opened, a different thumbnail comes up under each of the boudoir categories. Perhaps one of those two photos came up when the family opened your wife's site and that was what started the problem. This is another suggestion I'll be interested to see other opinions on

Originally Posted by jblaschke

Mind you, up until the ugly incident, all of her friends and family have been extremely enthusiastic. Most even have said they think the boudoir idea is great, the photos she's done thus far "fun." But she's wondering if she doesn't give up on the boudoir, maybe she should "hide" it on a separate site. I'm not sure. Right now, the "family" and "glamour" galleries are separate. She wants to be a photographer with wide-ranging shooting styles, and bridal boudoir was going to be a significant aspect of her wedding business. If that's tucked away on another site, I anticipate it becoming a stagnant aspect of her offerings. She's concerned about that, too. But she's afraid all clients will shun her if she offers boudoir. She is, as I've said, very rattled.

I think putting the boudoir on a separate site would be best--maybe putting a comment in the blog that it is available and a discreet link to the other site would work. Mention it in the price list and make sure that brides know that it's available as an option when they inquire about photography.

The big thing--don't give up on your dream. Most businesses run into major problems sometime (think Tylenol, the "New" Coca Cola). Work around it, work through it, and press on. Your wife is too talented to give up!

My apologies for being so wordy on this... I hope some of the suggestions help.

[resehop]

I have learned to stop shooting for the client and shoot for myself. I did not ever believe this would work at first but I was so tired of shooting the same things. I didn't enjoy my art when I shot what the clients wanted. I have boudoir on my main site (then again, weddings are my target market, not children/families). I guess the way I feel about it is that if someone looks at it and do not want to hire me just because of that, they probably are not the client for me.

Once I got bold it took me awhile to find my market. Now I am happier than I thought I could ever be doing what I love. The clients trust me and hire me because of my art and rarely do I get someone trying to tell me how to do my job. If you think this thought process does not work, this weekend I had 2 engagement shoots, bridal portraits, a prom (for a Christian school that saw my website before hiring me), a wedding, and a bridal portraits.

My point of all of this is that to be happy you have to market to the clients you want to attract. Times have always been changing and it is important to stay in front of the curve in the business world. Things that are not accepted today will be a part of tomorrow and considered the "norm".

I believe your wife should do what makes her happy. I am not suggesting that she go out and rattle the the cages but she can have both family and boudoir on one website and be tactful.

[doctahjones]

while you know, i know, and most everyone on here knows the difference between boudoir and pornography, i agree that when someones kid is in the mix they overreact.

your wife does some excellent pictures and it would be -such- a waste if this rattled her away from persuing it.


because of the day care thing i would put the boudoir section either on another site all together, or at least behind some kind of password. at least until the day care thing is out of the picture. i think that most of the parents probably don't even know what 'boudoir' is and what set them off was that they saw -some- pictures that looked like it could have been the beginning of a porno shoot and just assumed that's what it was. I'm not saying the pictures look like that, but they -could- be interpreted like that by ignorant people.

i would also keep a mention of the boudoir in the pricing page. those that are actually looking to get pictures would probably know what this is, and if not you can explain it instead of them seeing "some" pictures and making an incorrect judgement for themselves.

so, lesson learned. seperate the stuff and keep shooting. good luck :)

[KimHurt]

You said your wife was looking to do mainly bridal boudoir, maybe the solution is to have two separate sites linked by a shared splash page. One could hold your family, senior, and baby offerings, and the other could be dedicated to bridal, boudoir, engagement, and wedding images. If you did something like this there would be no need to hide the boudoir page or password protect it because adults looking for wedding services would be the only ones viewing the site (and most likely your intended market for boudoir). If your offer boudoir someday someone is going to decide they want to get offended by it, just blow it off. I find it ironic these kind of people never seem to be offended by half or fully nude images of pregnant women, only young unpregant women in lingerie.

[toverman]

Not a bad idea to keep it separate from the family/kid/senior sessions. She wouldn't get a whole lot of cross business in those markets anyway. Either a separate site or mention of that service somewhere would intrigue the right people.

As for the loss of the daycare client, what is to stop her from advertising for another? What ages does she keep? How many is she permitted by the state to have? With school letting out, if she is able to keep a school-age child, that is what some parents are looking for vs. summer camps, etc.

[jblaschke]

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[Tom]

Have a separate website for the racy pics. I don't like mixing different types of photography, especially kid stuff with the implied nudity stuff.

[HotHolly]

I just launched a boudoir branch to our biz. Im in the same boat as you - my stuff is squeaky clean, no nudity, and people tend to think its gonna be sleaze (even if they know me). Which is weird - the name hotholly is tounge-in-cheek, modestholly would be more like it.

Anyway, I totally agree she should separate kids from boudoir.

Other thingie - call it something that is more specific. If its vintage pin up - call it that. If its flirty shots - call it that.

I use a handful of select clients to launch my boudoir site. Some of them have no problem flashing their who-whos at marti gras to hundreds of unknown people (who may or may not reach out and touch someone), but when you say 'boudoir' - their brain shuts down. Use an American word that conveys more meaning and you'll skirt some of the crazies.

[ilove2eatcake]

That's horrible that happened. Your wife's work is really beautiful!

I made the decision to put my boudoir photography on a separate site. In my experience, boudoir gets mixed opinions because alot of people don't really understand what it is. But overall, more and more women are discovering it and loving the idea of it. At one of the Bridal Extravaganzas in Houston I had one of my fave boudoir images framed. I heard a lot of "Oh my gosh I want to do that!," but there was one moment I heard a bridesmaid tell her bride friend to not even look at it because it was "trash." To each his own. I also put kind of an explanation of what I think boudoir photography is on my boudoir site. Hope this helps!