Debate: To do payments... or not

[Cajungaltx]

At Texas School - my instructors (Sarah Petty/Vicki Tauffer) had differing opinions on this.

One, said that they will split up payments over a year to allow a client to get the images they want. By the time the images are given to the client (she does NOT delay giving them to the client) - the 'costs' are covered.

One said that they will do 2 or 3 payments - but don't order until 50% is paid for, and they don't get the images until paid in full.

Some folks like it, cause in a 'slow' month - you still have income, coming in.
Some folks say it'll cause major problems...

So - what do you guys think?

[koppiwrite]

I see what you are saying... I think Mike and Holly do this, but I am not positive. I have seriously considered doing this for my current clients as my prices will be increasing July 1st. Right now I am so low that I don't see the benefit in offering payments (except weddings of course).
I think it is a good idea, but I don't want to be the bill collector calling when payments aren't received etc.

[AndrewCCM]

What kind of clients?

For weddings...Retainer and paid in full 30days prior. No other way. I learned my lesson about letting people pay after the wedding when all of "real life" expenses start pouring in.

Corporate clients.. Net 30.

That is just me. However, I should mention that I don't book weddings anymore. Thank Goodness.

[HeatherLou]

I'm more in the second group. They pay for there session fee, at the portrait session. Then at the sales session, I will allow them to pay half then, and half when they pick up the portraits. But I learned my lesson, I won't give out the portraits unless they are totally paid for.

[CallMeAl]

I have to admit that I have done it but will not do that again. Once they have their portraits, you are automatically on the back burner as far as payment goes. Look at the posts about sales techniques and how hard it is for some of us to "sell." Just wait until we have to become debt collectors!

When people ask me this, I tell them that I keep all digital files and they can re-order as their financial situation allows.

[toverman]

Another option is allowing clients to pay via credit card (it's up to them if they have a 12-month, no interest option). That way they can spread out the payments but the photographer gets paid on time, all at once.

[HotHolly]

We allow payments - they typically pay for wedding coverage in 2-3 payments of which ALL are completed 45 days prior to the wedding. It gives me enough time to get the final payment b4 crunch time in the last 30 days.

For portrait sessions, I have left the sections separate - which feels more like payments. They pay for the session fee b4 the session. Its how we hold the date. They are under no obligation to purchase. I dont do the min $200 print purchase...for us thats like 2 prints. It seemed stupid to require it, especially since most people will spend WAY more but they only dog-eared $500-$600. Gross is still around $1700 per portrait session.

We also offer financing now via a 3rd party. They can get a Belle's credit card and pay it out after they get the stuff. Good for instant gratification and it doesnt burn me.

I think that making things look affordable is important. You can do that with payment options or break up the price which puts them on a payment plan (of sorts) that you can live with.

[Cajungaltx]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

We allow payments - they typically pay for wedding coverage in 2-3 payments of which ALL are completed 45 days prior to the wedding. It gives me enough time to get the final payment b4 crunch time in the last 30 days.

For portrait sessions, I have left the sections separate - which feels more like payments. They pay for the session fee b4 the session. Its how we hold the date. They are under no obligation to purchase. I dont do the min $200 print purchase...for us thats like 2 prints. It seemed stupid to require it, especially since most people will spend WAY more but they only dog-eared $500-$600. Gross is still around $1700 per portrait session.

We also offer financing now via a 3rd party. They can get a Belle's credit card and pay it out after they get the stuff. Good for instant gratification and it doesnt burn me.

I think that making things look affordable is important. You can do that with payment options or break up the price which puts them on a payment plan (of sorts) that you can live with.

Petty went through one of her sales session... and told the client, lets pick out images, and then we'll figure out where they go.

The client had seen the price list up front (part of the consultation).

They went through, and said, oh a big one of this one... and a big one of that one (she does projection viewing)... and an 8x10 of each of those for the grandparents...

The total was 8K when she got done.

EIGHT THOUSAND!

This was a role playing scenario - and the 'client' immediately went into 'oh crap, I can't pay that!' mode.

So they knocked off a few things, and got it down to 2K for 3 months, for 6K worth of large canvases, and grouped images (3x3's, and such)...

They required TWO credit cards to be on file - just in case something happens with the first one. But to me, someone had said, somewhere that I'd read: I can't sell your prints of your kids to someone else.... which means that there is NO way I'm printing them without you paying for them... or taking them BEFORE they are paid for.

But she saved a 6K sale by doing that.

It seems that if the goal of projected proofing is to sell larger wall portraits... but larger wall portraits require a larger pocketbook... or creative finance purchasing on my end in order to allow my clients to afford the larger canvases...

Does that make sense?

[AndrewCCM]

I would be interested to see how many people on this forum legitimately sell a $6k portrait order more than once. Not saying there aren't some... Definitely are a handful I can think of off the top of my head...But I'd venture to say less than 1%. My sense is that those that will pay $6k for portraits are probably those that can afford many things and have significant disposable income. I would think the average person that may buy a few hundred dollars worth of images (in many cases) may be the ones that get strapped for cash from time to time. Just a hunch. I certainly could be very off base.

I know of a couple of people (not photographers) that ran into a lot of trouble getting paid by some very wealthy MLB players once they relocated. One (ummm post-game announcer former pitcher) even walked away from a house in Southlake and let the bank foreclose rather than pay the bill.

Good discussion topic.

[HotHolly]

That is a totally different client base than most people have. She also pooled everyone ordering off of that account. We dont. Everyone writes their own check, unless the stuff was bought as gifts. Does that make sense?

The other thing - most people spending that much arent the type to default b/c of social protocol. They'll be shamed by their peers and loose social status. Most people in that socioeconomic bracket arent willing to do that.

Setting up a credit card (and a back up) to auto bill makes sense to me for that demographic.

[Cajungaltx]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

I would be interested to see how many people on this forum legitimately sell a $6k portrait order more than once. Not saying there aren't some... Definitely are a handful I can think of off the top of my head...But I'd venture to say less than 1%. My sense is that those that will pay $6k for portraits are probably those that can afford many things and have significant disposable income. I would think the average person that may buy a few hundred dollars worth of images (in many cases) may be the ones that get strapped for cash from time to time. Just a hunch. I certainly could be very off base.

I know of a couple of people (not photographers) that ran into a lot of trouble getting paid by some very wealthy MLB players once they relocated. One (ummm post-game announcer former pitcher) even walked away from a house in Southlake and let the bank foreclose rather than pay the bill.

Good discussion topic.

Even if I use a smaller pricing structure - say 2K - which is really not alot for seniors, or a wedding, or family portraits... families that couldn't afford that out of pocket... could pay $500/month for 4 months... to get those really awesome - HUGE canvases that they wanted.

I thought the 6K portrait order was pretty darn high... lol...

Cajungaltx added 2 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...Double Post Merged Below

Originally Posted by HotHolly

That is a totally different client base than most people have. She also pooled everyone ordering off of that account. We dont. Everyone writes their own check, unless the stuff was bought as gifts. Does that make sense?

The other thing - most people spending that much arent the type to default b/c of social protocol. They'll be shamed by their peers and loose social status. Most people in that socioeconomic bracket arent willing to do that.

Setting up a credit card (and a back up) to auto bill makes sense to me for that demographic.

This was just one person (mom) ordering the images. She was ordering copies of the images for gifts for grandparents. Of course, the whole thing/discussion was fictional base.

You should have heard the class crack up when the 'mom' said - I'll just order 5 of those 8x10's... and scan them in and print them at home.



We all cracked up.

[AndrewCCM]

Yeah.. Don't get me wrong.. I occasionally make sales that high, but they are to corporate clients typically. My partner does with weddings too. I was more or less thinking (and typing) out loud about portrait sessions in general and the clientele that could afford such. :)

[HotHolly]

I think if it is within your ability to offer a payment structure and still keep the joy of a major purchase - then you both win.

That was why we got the store its own credit card for our shoppers. B/t the bridal shop and the photo studio it made sense without biting me on the butt. (If you look at our site - that is how we offer 12 months no interest no payments).

Maybe after you tally up their order and they have sticker shock, you could tell them if they could purchase everything that was on here, would you? When they say of course - tell them if they leave their order intact, that you will offer a special payment plan - break it down into 3 payments (one is due now) and then space the other 2 payments out in 30 days, and 60 days mark. Deliver her items like a book of the month club kinda thing. If you recoup cost on payment #1, then payment #2 and #3 is profit. It might be worth trying it. You can space delivery too. Make it fun. Like she gets a new item sent to her every 2 weeks and a couple of freebies when her payment is received on time. Just an idea...

[toverman]

If some of the photogs on the lecture/workshop circuit really spent most of their time selling $6,000 from portrait sessions, they'd probably hit the road a lot less often.

[Shelby Lane]

For what it's worth, I like Holly's idea.

And just for a real world perspective, I had more than one client over the past couple of years who got on a payment plan and gave me those two credit cards, which both ended up being declined at the 2nd payment, with no return phone calls from the clients. Their orders were not delivered, or placed with the lab -- but you could potentially end up stuck with orders on a "payment plan" that won't get paid for six months or two years or more. A few have come back and wanted to change their order, because "it's been so long we just don't need it anymore." And then, since they're on a plan, how do you think they'll take it if you say "our prices have gone up 20% since you ordered several years ago, so now you owe me more because this was not paid in time"? Even with the two cards and good paperwork, it can end up being a mess.