Questions from a non-Techie

[Comanche]

I would like some suggestions from those of you who know what you are doing with computers - and photography. I don't know anything about computers, nor do I want to know. I am a photographer who just needs some help with the digital darkroom.

Background: I shoot mostly sports, some news features and some documentary work for overseas NGOs. I use two Canon cameras, a 1D Mk III and a Mk IV. It is normal for me to shoot 700-800 frames at a football game. I use Lightroom 2 now, but will probably upgrade to 3 soon. I seldom use Photoshop - only when I need to clean up something I can't do in LR. I shoot RAW. The recent acquisition of the Mk IV with its larger files showed me I need a new computer because my current antique machine chokes on 200 + RAW files from the Mk IV. I am a PC owner and have no interest in going to the Mac. I do not want to go the normal consumer PC route (Dell, HP, etc.) because I want reliability. Price is some concern, but I am willing to spend money for quality.

I have looked at Cerise computers - seems to be what I want. I will get a desktop, not a workstation. (Don't have that kind of money.) I know some of you build computers - if you suggest I hire you, tell me why you are better than Cerise.

I know I need lots of memory. I was thinking of 12 gig. The cost is quite a lot more than 8 gig. Would 8 be enough?

What version of Windows 7 should I get - and why?

Video card - I don't game, so I don't need speed - at least I don't think I need speed. Tell me about the amount of memory I need in the video card.

Drives - besides the fact that I know I need lots of space, such as a 1.5 terabyte drive, and that having my OS and application software on one fast drive and my files stored on another, tell me about RAID and if I need it. Currently, when I load files onto my machine with LR, I have a copy made on an external and keep it there until I am through with that session, then delete once all the finished files on the main HD are backed up.

Firewire and built-in card readers - do I need it? I know Firewire is faster than USB, but do built-in card readers use Firewire?

Processor - any real reason to spend a lot more to get something better than the Intel Core i7 960 Nehalem 3.2GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache Quad-Core

What does "2 Port eSATA Card & 2 Port Firewire 800 Card With Texas Instruments Chipset" mean and is it worth $100.

Monitor - 22" Samsung okay? (I doubt I will go the dual monitor route - I just don't see the need for what I do.)

Thanx in advance for your help -

[Peacock]

I have never had any issues with Dell Precision line of workstations, they are also come with a 3 yr NBD on site service. Just in case!

But is you want someone to build one for you, make sure that all the hardware that is purchased will be on the Microsoft Hardware Compatibility List.
Products Designed for Microsoft Windows - Windows Catalog, Windows Compatibility Center, and Windows Logo'd Product List or that the hardware has the Microsoft Certified Logo Winqual Help

12 GB of RAM would be better but 8 GB of RAM would be just fine for photo editing. But all the newer systems do DDR3 memory which you have to use sets of 3 sticks of RAM so you either opt for 6GB or 12 GB.

You should be fine with Windows 7 Home Premium, or Ultimate - Which one is right for you? - Microsoft Windows not to many differences.

Video card will be dependant on what you would like to connect to the video card for displays. 256 MB of RAM should be fine, of course the more the merrier.

Drives will be the important part of your system... I would do a Single SATA Drive for O/S and Applications, a Single SATA Drive for system paging, a Single SATA Drive for Scratch Disk (adobe). Then I would do a three of four drive bay for SATA Drives to be running in a RAID 5, either IcyDock ICY DOCK MB454SPF-B 4 in 3 SATA I & II Hot-Swap Internal Backplane Raid Cage Module or something like that. These are available as internal enclosures or as external enclosures in a case that connect to a eSATA RAID card. This will allow you to RAID you drives.

Built in card reader is a must, they usually connect straight to the motherboard, either a USB header, Firewire or ever a SATA Port, any should be fine!

The processor you selected should be fine...

An eSATA card will allow you to connect an external SATA drive to your computer.

Monitor will be to your liking, but a single 22 inch should be fine.

Good luck! Stay safe down there in the Valley! With all the weather and all!

[Zack Davis]

I have looked at Cerise computers - seems to be what I want. I will get a desktop, not a workstation. (Don't have that kind of money.) I know some of you build computers - if you suggest I hire you, tell me why you are better than Cerise.

They have a nice website but their pricing for what you get... wow that's nuts.

I know I need lots of memory. I was thinking of 12 gig. The cost is quite a lot more than 8 gig. Would 8 be enough?

8 is more than enough currently, 4 would get you by fine and 6 would be enough to keep everyone happy so if you have 8 than you're probably good to go when doing a lot on the system. You can also be sure to get a motherboard that supports more, most should support atleast 12-16GB and some can support up to 24.

What version of Windows 7 should I get - and why?

Professional is all you need, you don't need all the bells and whistles that comes with Ultimate but Pro has additional networking features that you'll find nice should you end up growing your networking. You can see a comparison of the versions on Microsoft's website here: Windows 7: Compare Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate

Video card - I don't game, so I don't need speed - at least I don't think I need speed. Tell me about the amount of memory I need in the video card.

Nvidia Quadro Card, you're not gaming and neither are most photographers so what you need is a Workstation Card. I says Nvidia workstation cards and not ATI because the Nvidia cards are CUDA-enabled, this boosts rendering in Photoshop just be sure that the card you select has the atleast meets the requirements of - Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0 (newer versions of both are available and fine to use just be sure not to use older models ;) )

Drives - besides the fact that I know I need lots of space, such as a 1.5 terabyte drive, and that having my OS and application software on one fast drive and my files stored on another, tell me about RAID and if I need it. Currently, when I load files onto my machine with LR, I have a copy made on an external and keep it there until I am through with that session, then delete once all the finished files on the main HD are backed up.

I'd avoid the 1.5TB drives and go straight to 2TB drives simply because the 1.5TB models seem to have more problems than others especially some Seagate models. As for RAID I've read some posts here where some say RAID 1+0 and others say 0+1. I myself prefer 5 for it's simplicity and because I don't like the idea of using a RAID array as a backup (which is mostly a personal thing). RAID can either increase your speed, your storage capacity or both and I find 5 to be do this well and like I said, simply. The other arrays I mentioned are not worse and so long as you get plenty of storage upfront to avoid the headache of adding another drive to the array than 1+0 or 0+1 are both very decent arrays as well.

Firewire and built-in card readers - do I need it? I know Firewire is faster than USB, but do built-in card readers use Firewire?

Firewire is a personal choice, unless your Mac you won't find many devices that make Firewire useful. Also USB 3.0 isn't very great so when you see it available it's nothing to get excited about as it's performance gains are not great enough at this point.

Processor - any real reason to spend a lot more to get something better than the Intel Core i7 960 Nehalem 3.2GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache Quad-Core

The 960 is great, it's at the higher end of the spectrum and should serve you well. I would just recommend getting a 3rd party cooler instead of using the stock Intel fan that comes with it as a good 3rd party cooler will run much quieter and cooler than the stock.

What does "2 Port eSATA Card & 2 Port Firewire 800 Card With Texas Instruments Chipset" mean and is it worth $100.

Simple answer, no it's not worth $100 because neither of these are really being overly used especially by a PC user.

Monitor - 22" Samsung okay? (I doubt I will go the dual monitor route - I just don't see the need for what I do.)

I love my Samsung LCD's and so long as you're not doing any detailed color correcting than they'll suit you fine with a good monitor calibrator you can get fairly good color. But there are options from NEC around $1000 that will give you great color without the Eizo prices.

I have never had any issues with Dell Precision line of workstations, they are also come with a 3 yr NBD on site service. Just in case!

I didn't trust Dell before it was found they knowingly sold bad computers and I'd definitely avoid them now. lol that's just my humble opinion though ymmv. :)

[SCone]

Maybe I missed it but make certain your OS is 64bit.....

[Rson]

At some point you hit terminal velocity of processing. Maybe the hard drive transfer rates are a bottle neck, maybe the Northbridge but building the greatest monster editing machine with cutting edge parts is a waste of money. You might get maybe a 5%-10% performance increase at a premium price only to have the cost tumble after a few weeks/months on the market.

Get a decent solid machine without the cutting edge premium price. You can call me.

[Abel]

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Thanks

[Rson]

Long and short of it...

Chances are if you have a quality motherboard, you will have a esata connector

Win7 Pro or Ultimate 64 bit is the best for OS

8gb of Ram is usually enough(amd systems) or 12gb on Intel boxes

You can probably save a few hundred on the processor by getting a few steps down (Adobe is a Ram and disk hog not processor) Are you set on Intel? You can get some serious performance from AMD for less $$$

SSD hard drives will yield a great improvement in transfer speeds

Photoshop doesn't fully utilize the video card yet, it is doing better in CS5. I like a 1gb ATI 5000 series card
GPU and OpenGL Support in Photoshop CS5 and CS4

You can get a SATA internal card reader. This is probably the fastest you can get.

[Zack Davis]

I'm gonna politely disagree with you on a few points. :)

You might get maybe a 5%-10% performance increase at a premium price only to have the cost tumble after a few weeks/months on the market.

5-10% is quite a lot if you were to say a photographer on average spends 20-25 hours a week on the computer (slightly conservative imho) than you tell them they could over a year shave 5-10% off the total time they would have to sit behind the computer, or have that additional time to complete additional work for the premium price of $100-200 on the total cost of the system. I believe many would select that option. I myself see it as a benefit which is why I switched from AMD when I was ready to go multi-core.

(Adobe is a Ram and disk hog not processor)

Adobe is the trifecta it runs heavy on RAM, Hard Disk Drive (specifically scratch disk) and processor.

Photoshop doesn't fully utilize the video card yet, it is doing better in CS5. I like a 1gb ATI 5000 series card

It doesn't fully utilize the video card but it does fully utilize Cuda (an Nvidia proprietary feature). Photoshop will automatically detect the card and that it runs Cuda and even enable 12 features you won't get with a non-Cuda enabled card. As well as the benefit that you don't need a gaming card, nor the heat or electrical costs that come with it. A simple entry level Nvidia Qudaro FX 580 512mb Workstation card will more than do the job; runs much cooler and uses far less power (only 49 watts). These being workstation cards they're also made to better utilize the features Photoshop targets, specifically Shader Model and OpenGL. :)

[Zack Davis]

8gb of Ram is usually enough(amd systems) or 12gb on Intel boxes

Intel systems run great with 6Gb's of ram, if you use 8Gb's the majority of people will have ram to spare at that point. 12Gb's will be overkill for most users even photographers unless they are shooting a high megapixel camera and find they need to edit lots (batching 1000+ images for example). I'm sure someday most systems will need 12 especially as the size of megapixels rise but for now 6 you're set and 8 you're stellar. That's just my humble opinon though so ymmv. :)

[Rson]

Counter point:

OP stated that $ was an issue. So instead of a 999$ i9 a 499 i7 just might do the trick. From the post, it sounded like he had a transfer issue not a horsepower issue. I doubt he opens all 200 at once.

[RKEnnis]

Originally Posted by Zack Davis

It doesn't fully utilize the video card but it does fully utilize Cuda (an Nvidia proprietary feature). Photoshop will automatically detect the card and that it runs Cuda and even enable 12 features you won't get with a non-Cuda enabled card.

Which of these 12 CUDA features apply to the average sports photographer?

I'm under the impression that the CUDA stuff is pretty specialized. Mainly for 3d work, and perhaps medical and engineering imaging.

[Rson]

i didn't see much on Adobe or the web on it.....

[Zack Davis]

OP stated that $ was an issue. So instead of a 999$ i9 a 499 i7 just might do the trick. From the post, it sounded like he had a transfer issue not a horsepower issue. I doubt he opens all 200 at once.

The i7 980X is definitely overpriced even for the performance gains which is why I didn't recommend it. Really he could even skip the 960 and snag the 930, that way he would have the 1333 socket and be able to upgrade if he wanted after the prices dropped. The AMD chips even the Phenom II x6 only has benchmarked on par with the i7 930 so that would leave the 960 and/or the 980x as optional upgrades without the need to upgrade his motherboard.

Which of these 12 CUDA features apply to the average sports photographer?

I'm under the impression that the CUDA stuff is pretty specialized. Mainly for 3d work, and perhaps medial and engineering imaging.

Adobe Photoshop CS5 - NSIST ON NVIDIA

Depends on how much editing work there is to be done with images, many of them are not 3D related, more time saving shortcuts and faster previews, etc. Not sure how much of the current Cuda features a sports shooter may use currently.

Cuda though is likely to only be leveraged more and more by Adobe as a whole including within Photoshop. Currently it is true it's mostly used by Premier for the Mercury Engine but why spend $100's on a video card that has no Cuda support when you can be prepared for the future that likely will include some if not a lot of support for the feature?

GPU support with Adobe I believe is only going to grow as they throw more support behind it with plugins like Pixel Bender Pixel Bender Technology Center | Adobe Developer Connection .

[KdLaneJr]

Originally Posted by RKEnnis

Which of these 12 CUDA features apply to the average sports photographer?

I'm under the impression that the CUDA stuff is pretty specialized. Mainly for 3d work, and perhaps medial and engineering imaging.

Regarding video cards, It's easier to get the answer from Adobe. and there is more here on optimizing a system for Photoshop CS5.

CUDA anyone? Here is a you tube video from earlier this year?

Randy, I'm still digging for info as to how CUDA will benefit CS5 and LR3, but so far all I get out of it is that CUDA ensures the GPU can do all the video processing without dragging on CPU cycles. I'll edit this if I find any further useful info.


A better diatribe on CUDA.

[Zack Davis]

I'm still digging for info as to how CUDA will benefit CS5 and LR3

CUDA won't benefit CS5 anymore than it does currently unless they release some form of an update that allows for this because they would have to completely re-write the instructions for a plugin as they did for the pixel bender plugin.

As for LR3 I have not heard of any support for that currently, if they were to support it than it may include support from the GPU like Aperture but I haven't heard that it does they (yet) either.