Any thoughts on Apple not supporting Flash?

[AndrewCCM]

It really ticks me off that Apple has chosen to wage war against Flash (especially because so many photographers rely on it for web design).

I know that I often wish I could view my site on my iPhone (and soon to be iPad) without having to resort to a HTML add-on. I suppose once the new Microsoft tablet comes out (looks extremely cool btw), perhaps they'll support Flash or you may have an HTML5 option.

Anyway, just curious if you guys have been discussing this at all?

Thanks!

Andrew

[Todd Lambert]

I think it's awesome actually. I'm very glad that they are doing it. I am a web developer by profession and can't stand anything that is proprietary like Flash is. The death of Flash means more business for me, easier business for me, and in the end, a better product for my clients.

Also, don't think that it is just Apple that is out to get Flash. Microsoft, Google and many large websites are also making moves to end it's dominance on the web.

Notice I didn't say death, just dominance. Flash will have a place for things for a long time. But if it is used like an add-on rather than the whole shebang(entire sites in flash suck and should die, sorry) - this is the best method for using Flash.

Photographers and musicians are probably the biggest segment of all Flash websites and they're just going to have to progress like everyone else has already started to.

Honestly, there are alternative options for almost anything that Flash can do. And more options will continue to arrive. Might as well get on-board now.

[AndrewCCM]

Originally Posted by Todd Lambert

I think it's awesome actually. I'm very glad that they are doing it. I am a web developer by profession and can't stand anything that is proprietary like Flash is. The death of Flash means more business for me, easier business for me, and in the end, a better product for my clients.

Also, don't think that it is just Apple that is out to get Flash. Microsoft, Google and many large websites are also making moves to end it's dominance on the web.

Notice I didn't say death, just dominance. Flash will have a place for things for a long time. But if it is used like an add-on rather than the whole shebang(entire sites in flash suck and should die, sorry) - this is the best method for using Flash.

Photographers and musicians are probably the biggest segment of all Flash websites and they're just going to have to progress like everyone else has already started to.

Honestly, there are alternative options for almost anything that Flash can do. And more options will continue to arrive. Might as well get on-board now.

As a developer, do you like to pay 30% of your gross profit to Apple? To me, it's much more than what Apple pretends it to be. A good majority of those apps in the AppStore could be produced in Flash and distributed outside of Apple's control (and outside of their bottomline).

I am not against things moving away from Flash...but their sheer attack on Adobe is a bit extreme. Personally, I don't want to have to shell out more money for alternative code just because they can't profit from it being supported. Especially, when my site runs great.

My kids websites (and most kids sites) they frequent are chalk full of flash games and educational tools.

I can appreciate HTML5...It's funny though, when Apple or pretty much anyone talks about killing flash, they keep saying...if you need video, use the h.264 standard, etc. etc...
What they never mention is entire sites utilize flash. It is not strictly video.

And Todd, I don't think it's appropriate to comment on a sponsors site (that specializes in Flash Websites) and say "Entire sites in flash suck and should die, sorry"

I don't think mine sucks. But suit yourself.

[brad]

Flash is evil.

It should never be used to create websites.. applications, yes.. but websites are horrible in it. SEO is awful and they are slow to load.

[Kalrog]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

As a developer, do you like to pay 30% of your gross profit to Apple?

Proprietary - weather Apple or Adobe or MS - is bad and shouldn't be used. I don't.

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

My kids websites (and most kids sites) they frequent are chalk full of flash games and educational tools.

Those are applications/games and that is the one area that flash is actually helpful. I still think it is overused there, but at least I can see the utility of it.

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

I don't think it's appropriate to comment on a sponsors site (that specializes in Flash Websites) and say "Entire sites in flash suck and should die, sorry"

I don't use CMD specifically because they are a flash based thing. They need to understand the market (and I am sure they do). They have chosen a path that works for them, but there is a market segment that doesn't like that decision. If it is a large enough segment, they will change. If not, they won't.

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

I don't think mine sucks. But suit yourself.

I don't think that was an attack on any specific content (such as your site), just the delivery method. For instance, I block ALL flash from being seen on my browser unless I specifically enable it. So all I would see on your site is an arrow asking me if I wanted to enable it. I probably would not unless I already knew I wanted to go there. Marketing opportunity lost.

[Flea77]

Originally Posted by Kalrog

I don't think that was an attack on any specific content (such as your site), just the delivery method. For instance, I block ALL flash from being seen on my browser unless I specifically enable it. So all I would see on your site is an arrow asking me if I wanted to enable it. I probably would not unless I already knew I wanted to go there. Marketing opportunity lost.

Ditto, except I use a 64bit browser which has no support for flash at all. If I really really really want to see a flash site I will open IE and paste the URL, but there has to be some really big draw for me to do that.

Allan

[AndrewCCM]

Let me clear something up. My post was directed at CMD. Not to start a bashing from members here about their offerings.

I would have posted this in another section if that was the purpose.

[brad]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

Let me clear something up. My post was directed at CMD. Not to start a bashing from members here about their offerings.

I would have posted this in another section if that was the purpose.

Ah.. point taken. Note to self.. when using "New Posts" to browse forum, try to pay attention to the section of the post.




That said.. doesn't CMD offer an HTML version of your website side by side with the flash version?

[Todd Lambert]

Yeah, I am guilty of not reading the forum this was posted in either. I meant nothing I said as being directed towards anyone or anything directly. It was a blanket statement and I stand by that. ;-)

As for the items below:

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

As a developer, do you like to pay 30% of your gross profit to Apple? To me, it's much more than what Apple pretends it to be. A good majority of those apps in the AppStore could be produced in Flash and distributed outside of Apple's control (and outside of their bottomline).

I am not against things moving away from Flash...but their sheer attack on Adobe is a bit extreme. Personally, I don't want to have to shell out more money for alternative code just because they can't profit from it being supported. Especially, when my site runs great.

I don't think most of the developers out there that are making money hand over fist because of Apple, have too much of a complaint about the 30%. Apple created something that didn't exist before. They created an entire market for these items and if developers want to sell their stuff (and potentially make huge amounts of cash from it), they need to play by Apple's rules - nothing wrong with that. They are also a business that is doing what businesses do.. make money. Why would they want to allow something that keeps them from making money, and why do you think there is something wrong with that?!? Do you also complain that parking isn't free?

Also, I don't really think Apple is waging an all-out sheer attack on Adobe. They just aren't including it in their product. There's no rule that says they have to either. A lot of people remarked that Apple would have to give in, or that the iPhone would flop without Flash... which was the chance that Apple took when it decided not to include Flash. Well, it's not hurting them at all and in effect it is helping move the entire industry forward and uniting towards an open standard. That's an excellent thing and I am overjoyed that Apple is doing it, along with Microsoft, Google, etc..

If you're fine with using Flash, keep using it. There is nothing that will stop you. If you want to keep with current trends and technology, you'll have to update your stuff, but then that's the case with anything.

As I said, certain segments will be affected by the decline of Flash on the web more than others. But, the good news is, the solution is free. HTML, CSS and Javascript are free, open standards that can be used by anyone.

[AndrewCCM]

Not to rehash...

Any thoughts about developers spending time and money developing apps for AppStore only to have them censored and not approved? There are apps that don't get approved all the time for very obscure reasons...Just because you follow their rules doesn't insure that it will be accepted. And now they are not letting developers port code from other platforms via non-approved compilers. To me, if this is all in the name of "user experience concerns", then why not have the same rules for OSX? Put an AppStore in and not let developers sell their software anywhere else or port code from other platforms?

I just don't see it as a good thing at all. Love Apple products...Not a fan of their business model or the way they treat "non-consumer minded people".

The only other thing I want to say... Quicktime on Windows is about as poor as Flash is on OSX... Of course, they don't discuss that.... Try editing h.264 video on a PC based NLE requiring Quicktime... It's bad and well known in the video market.. Kinda pot calling kettle to me...

I really should move this to another forum...but figured I'd respond here to get my thoughts out to this particular audience. I won't comment further as it's not a CMD thing at this point.

@Brad... yes they offer a HTML alternative now and give it away to all new customers... For me, $95.. blah.

[brad]

That reminds me of a funny story from a former associate from my mobile programming days...

His company is one of the largest software companies out there offering mobile solutions for Bible study... although that's not relevant to the story. They have ported their software to just about every mobile platform out there... including the iPhone. Their first submission to the iPhone store was declined on the grounds that they were using "an unpublished API." They scratched their heads and started trying to figure out what they had done wrong....

Apple's system for determining this is to run the software through a scanner that checks the code automatically... as it turns out, they coincidentally named a variable with the same name as one of the unpublished API calls. The automated scanner couldn't make the distinction and just spit it out as rejected.

Funny now, but at the time, he was pulling his hair out and spend hours trying to figure out what was wrong.

[Todd Lambert]

I think this answers things pretty clearly:

Thoughts on Flash

[jonnydonut]

Apple seems to be waging wars against too many people and big people like adobe and google. They try to maintain control and dominance like a bully. I think it will really hurt them in the long run. They constantly hold back features and hold back others. I hate flash web sites as much as anyone else (note my site is html), and I love apple products and hardware, but the apple battles are annoying.

On another completely different topic, I was able to view my site on an ipad the other day and it was awesome. I just wish I was able to "flick my finger" from one photo to the next, anyone know if or how this is possible? javascript code? (btw, I bet flash could do it).

[jonnydonut]

Seen this?

Thoughts on Flash

[ChristopherCoy]

I thought Apple just said that products like the iphone and ipad will support flash with the release of the new OS? Did I misunderstand the CS5 launch message?