model posing

[CBass]

So i have been wanting to do some more portriat work since getting my new camera. problem is i have been practicing with my fiance and another friend and they are what i have been lovenly calling "dead faced." They lack emotion in their face and what emotion they do show it looks so forced that its not really usable. I try to just sit watch and continue to shoot till something happens but it never does.

Does anyone have any advice to help with this? Maybe a book you know about i could look at to kinda try to coach them a little? I can kinda get away with some decent body posing but everything face related just looks horriable. Thanks in advance.

[bondarnes]

Have you tried loosening them up with adult beverages.

[CBass]

That was my next step but i would like to learn how to do it without those. I have been asked by a few friends to photograph their children or do family portriats. If they give me "dead face" then im not sure they would like little tommy kicking back a few beer. Besides im sure i will need them for myself lmao.

[adirty1]

Have them say AAAAAA-EEEEEE-IIIIIIIIII-OOOOOOOO-UUUUUUUUU. You will be able to get all different types of looks. It gives a very natural look.

[Gordon]

I'm somewhere in the middle of writing an article about this, but a few ideas:

When you are shooting them, do you pay more attention to your camera or to them ? Try to get your camera set up before they are even there and don't fiddle with it once you start taking their picture. I use prime lenses partly for this reason. Don't be zooming your lens in and out, move your feet. Don't fiddle too much with settings - try to get that mostly dialed in before you start. pay attention to them, not your camera, lights or whatever else is going on.

When you've got the camera in front of your face are you talking to them, or are they staring at a reflection of themselves in a unresponsive piece of glass ? A lens is a scary thing to have in your face if that's all you can think about.

People will tend to mirror your mood or emotional state. If you want them to be up beat and happy in the pictures, you need to be up beat and happy. If you want them quiet and solemn, you have to be quiet and solemn. If you want them unresponsive and bored, don't talk to them ;)

talk to them, distract them. If you can set up on a tripod you can get out from behind the camera, or just talk with the camera in front of your face.

Don't make them feel uncomfortable - that includes saying things like 'oh, this isn't working...' or 'hmm, come on now, smile!'

Showing them shots along the way can be a bit of a minefield too - if you check/ chimp images and pull a face about it being bad, they'll pick up on that. So be positive, even when it isn't working. If they suggest a pose or something and you don't think it'll work - shoot it anyway, go for it, try it for a bit then move on to your next idea - don't be negative along the way.

Some random ideas that can work well:
Get them to frown as much as they can. Ask them to scowl at you, glare, look miserable. Most people crack up laughing a few seconds in to trying that - and it's usually a genuine smile.

Get them talking about something they care about, that isn't you taking their picture.

Flatter them, either be genuine, or not - whatever you think their personality will take. But be sincere.

You don't have to be the world champion at story telling or the funniest joke teller in the world, but you do need to distract them from their reflection looking back at them at the other end of the lens. You've also got to throw some confidence in your abilities towards them - fake it until you have it.

This, at least to me, is all about the real challenge of taking portraits. Lighting isn't so hard. The technical aspects are pretty easy. Getting an interesting reaction from someone you know is difficult. Getting near instant rapor with a complete stranger is a huge rush and a lot of fun. I spent some time last week shooting portraits on the street in Savannah, with people I'd never met and never actually spoke to them during the entire exchange. Every one of them has a huge smile on their face. We never said a word, I had my camera 3 feet from their faces. Body language has a big impact, timing, sincerity, but fundamentally - it's all about communication. I'll post some samples later today.

[HeatherLou]

I agree with everything Gordan said! Your personality plays such a bit role in how a "sitting" goes. One thing I was wondering while reading your question was that you are using your girlfriend and another friend, is this other friend a guy????? If so, are you posing them as a "couple"? If that is the case, you have a couple options, shoot them separately, or pose them like you would a brother and sister. I know the hardest thing I have ever had to do was teach my husband......well anything LOL.

[Gordon]

Thanks Heathar. Here's some examples to try to show what I mean or why I think this matter more than just about anything else. You are the photographer, everything that happens in the picture, particularly if you are posing it, has to come from you in one way or another. If you want lively posed pictures, you have to step up. Or don't pose the pictures and have them interact with each other and observe/ shoot more candidly.

Otherwise you need to find out what works for you to communicate. Talking is easiest for some, hardest for others.

Here's some examples, mostly from the last couple of weeks. Most of these people I don't know. At least 4 of them I never said a word to the entire shoot.

Slideshow

They key to all the expressions is communication in one way or another, verbal, non-verbal. Doesn't matter that much, whatever works for you. I remember shooting a portrait for Michelle that posts on here quite often, getting her to swear as loudly as she possibly could, while out on the street in Austin. The next second was a really genuine smile. It takes different things for different people to relax, or give you the expression you want. Most of the people you are shooting probably aren't models, they aren't comfortable with a big camera in their face.


The sequence of four shots are my brother/sister in law. The first frame is okay, comfortable, quiet. The second frame gets them comfortable, then they really laugh, then finally a genuine, happy smile from the pair of them.

Hope this is somewhat useful. I'll add some comments to the photos here I'm not naturally outgoing. I'm not an extrovert. I'm a fairly typical, introverted, shy photographer. But it doesn't take much to talk to someone, particularly when you are already hiding behind a camera :)

[rph]

I agree with what Gordon is saying. Back in the day, when I shot portraits all day long, it was always a challenge to "connect".

My mood played a lot in it, which could be a problem if I was frustrated or distracted with everything else going on. I found a way through that by establishing a routine for myself. The routine was sort of a mental switch that got my mind off everything else and on the task at hand.

Dealing with the clients was also important. They came in with the same kind of distractions. Most of them were busy, had to take time away from whatever was important to them, and then usually had to fight traffic to get to me.

The technique I used varied with their personalities. Some were extroverted and excited about the shoot. They weren't usually too hard to "get started" and that made things move fast. Some were just extremely attractive and knew how to smile...or not...which made them easy to deal with.

Others, as you're seeing, weren't so easy. I did one of two things with them.

If possible, I got them talking about themselves. I'd start out with some explanation that I had to do a few things, but found that most folks wanted a picture that showed something of who they really were, then ask about their job. If their job was boring (bank teller, for instance), one of us would usually say something to that effect, and I'd switch to their hobby...or their kids...or whatever in their life produced a facial response. Then I'd keep it going by asking questions.

If that didn't work and get them talking or they tried to discourage that approach, I'd switch to myself. I kept a few stock stories that would usually engage anyone's interest and move into one of them.

They'd usually respond, one way or another, and I'd just shoot as we talked. They would usually be so distracted that they'd forget what we were doing and, assuming I was "doing something else", respond naturally. Then I'd keep it going and just shoot when I saw the expression I wanted. I used the technique Gordon explained, getting everything in place and then just standing next to the camera and not looking through it.

There were always a few that didn't respond to anything and just wanted to get it over with. For those folks, I'd take their concern as my own. If I needed a smile, I'd fake some trouble with a completely irrelevant cord, make a comment about how sometimes it seems that nothing cooperates, then smile...with a lot of teeth...right at them. They'd usually smile back and the flashes would fire.

Shooting family is never easy, especially if they're uncomfortable in front of a camera. They know you too well and probably don't want to be involved in the process, because they're uncomfortable. That shows up in the pic's and they see it, which reinforces their position that it's not fun and doesn't result in anything cool or good. You've got to beat that.

As was mentioned, alcohol helps sometimes. People relax and you can get some shots. You can also use it as a prop. Of course you wouldn't do that with a client, but you're not with a client. Get good shots and work through the learning curve. As your results with them improve, they should either become more involved and excited about the process or at least more accepting of it.

The other trick I've found (my brother and father hated cameras with a passion, initially) was to just keep the thing at hand. Shoot all the time and focus on the light. Watch the light, put them in it, and occasionally shoot when you see something, without stopping them to make a production of it. They may whine and complain, but over time they'll get used to it and settle down. Once they do that and your results improve, they'll truly accept it and you'll find them actually "posing" for you, without the complaints and whines, when they know you're about to shoot.

The main thing is to get a result that they like. Use flattery and show your excitement for the process and the result. Use the LCD for good shots, show it to them, and say, "Wow!" or "Damn!" (or whatever you say) a lot. It should help build some interest in the process and the result.

I hope some of that helps. I have just been attacked by My Personal Midget, who insists that we HAVE to watch Air Buddies for the third time in a row...great...

Oh, yeah...show us some pic's!!!

[CaptainTom]

Originally Posted by bondarnes

Have you tried loosening them up with adult beverages.

Come on Don, you know that only works with children !!!

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by rph

There were always a few that didn't respond to anything and just wanted to get it over with. For those folks, I'd take their concern as my own. If I needed a smile, I'd fake some trouble with a completely irrelevant cord, make a comment about how sometimes it seems that nothing cooperates, then smile...with a lot of teeth...right at them. They'd usually smile back and the flashes would fire.

The other trick I've found (my brother and father hated cameras with a passion, initially) was to just keep the thing at hand. Shoot all the time and focus on the light. Watch the light, put them in it, and occasionally shoot when you see something, without stopping them to make a production of it. They may whine and complain, but over time they'll get used to it and settle down. Once they do that and your results improve, they'll truly accept it and you'll find them actually "posing" for you, without the complaints and whines, when they know you're about to shoot.

Great stuff Paul - thanks for sharing your experiences. Something else I remembered reading this - most people haven't seen a good picture of themselves. They might have had stuffy, formally posed school pictures taken. Some mugshots for the DMV. Bad party pics with redeye, direct flash etc. We all think we are ugly as a result. Not photogenic. Concerned about all that baggage. So you have to get passed some of that too. Like Paul said, shooting often, being casual about it helps. I used to bore my wife to death setting up, finding a good location, fiddling with camera settings, all while she was getting bored waiting on me and wanting to be off to something else entirely.

Now when I co-opt someone to take their picture I try to keep it to a maximum of 5 to 10 minutes. I aim to be finished sooner than I tell them. So it isn't a burden. I'll have scouted the location before they are even aware we are doing a shoot. My camera will be ready to go, settings dialed in, right lens on. I'll know when the light will be good. Then its just a case of 'okay, here we go' do this, talk , talk talk, shooting all the time and then done. 5 minutes, if I tell them its going to take 10. Most people end up saying something like 'are we done ?' and being surprised. Offering to give you more time. Stop then. Don't push it. Just push it for another 5 minutes in a week's time. Look at the pictures. Show them the good ones. Do it again the next time around. Learn from it. Be more prepaired. Taken even less time. Your friends and family aren't professional models. They aren't even amateur models, yet. Lead them in gently. Don't bore them. Don't scare them off.


Now my wife asks me to take her picture more often, because its so painless and she likes the results. This should be fun. It's your hobby, or your passion. Share that with these people, but just a bit. Leave them wanting more :)

Now, if someone asks me to take their picture I'll spend more time with them - but again, once people get bored or distracted, you've lost the battle anyway. Win the war another day.

[CBass]

Wow a lot of great stuff and a bunch of material for me to print up and go over time and time again. I just got in my first prime lens a 50mm f1.4 which i had been waiting on. I figured in this lens would help instead of that big monster 18-250 in their face. I will have to learn to relax myself i guess behind the camera. I hardly ever chimp (i think thats the word you used) i pretty much shoot till im done or they are and then i look at the shots on the computer or play back on the camera. Again thanks for all the info im going to review it all carefully and put it to use this week sometime. I know i busted on them a little hard but now and then i do get some really nice shots i was just trying to help improve my ratio and i think all this info will do just that.

One last question though is about double chin. Well ladys never like to see this and im wondering is there a good angle to shoot them from or something they could do to help reduce that? I try shooting looking down on them as that sometimes helps and other times makes it worse. any tips i could give them short of making them look like graffi's every shot?

[rph]

That's a good approach! It leaves the casual subjects "wanting more" and allows you time to review and work things out.

There's a bit of showmanship and management in the process, I think. I didn't like to think of it that way back then, but now I've begun to acknowledge that there's a bit of that in everything. You've got to put yourself in their position, address their concerns, and handle yours at the same time in the background...

I like Gordon's approach...shooting people on the fly...it puts you out there and puts the pressure on, both in the "performance" and in the result...and it builds your confidence. I was effectively forced to do it for a class, long ago, and was shocked that I actually enjoyed it. Like he said, I'm essentially a shy guy and would prefer to hide!

[rph]

You can do what you've done there, having them tilt their head upwards a bit. You can also use light and shadow to conceal it. It varies a lot with the person and I think there are times it can't be completely controlled. The tilt and having them sit up straight and hold their head high are the best all-round techniques for most situations that I know. There's probably better advice out there and hopefully, you'll hear it soon!

[HeatherLou]

You can also change the body angle. I photographed a woman a few days ago. From one angle (45 to Camera right) and she had a double chin. Turned her to a 45 degree to camera left and she didnt have it anymore. Also if you change your shooting position and shoot from slightly above the subject, that can help too.

[Gordon]

Most people have a flattering side and a less flattering side. We are nearly all asymmetrical - one side is going to look thinner than the other. It's usually what people call their 'best' side. Can also be because one eye is higher than the other, bigger than the other etc.

So learn to see the sides when you look at people. Try not to stare though ;) Be subtle, but practice noticing it in everyone you see. Work out which angles work on the people you meet, even if you aren't taking their picture, today.

If someone has a lazyier/ smaller eye , have that closer to the camera, it'll tend to balance out in the frame. Someone is a bit heavier, shoot them from a slightly higher position, it can be subtle yet be much more flattering. Shooting from above tends to get more light in their face too, if you are outdoors, have them in the shade looking towards a bright sky - not the sun, but just a bright blue sky - it can make the face glow and fill in shadows/ skin etc.

Lighting and pose can add or subtract 10s of libs.