Frustrated amateur photographer needs help w/settings for nighttime football!

[Susant707]

Hi, everyone--

I'm new to the forum and admit I'm a bit intimidated to post a question and pictures . . . but desperate times call for desperate measures, right?! I took pictures of my sons playing football a couple of years ago using my first & only SLR camera bought specifically for getting non-blurred action photos. They didn't play last year, but my oldest, a senior in high school, is playing again this year. I feel like I'm almost having to start over learning all the basics!

Anyway, I have had a lot of trouble finding the right settings for these nighttime stadium pictures and am getting pretty discouraged ~ I'm also running out of time to get good photos of him playing since the season is winding down (they have a perfect record so far, though--knock on wood!) & he's a senior.

I posted a question last week, asking what settings are recommended for nighttime football. I said that I have a Nikon D80 & rent a 70-200 mm (or 80-300 mm)/2.8 Nikkor lens each week. It was recommended that I use the following settings:

ISO 3200
Shutter speed 1/500 (or higher)
Aperture f2.8
Manual mode

These suggestions seemed to match the recommendations that I have read in various articles & such over the internet. I set my camera accordingly & the pictures were very dark (as you can see). I played with the shutter speed--higher/lower--and the ISO with minimal success. I usually use the shutter priority setting, but end up having blurred photos anyway--this is the first time I've tried manual. I tried to compensate by using +5 in the exposure compensation, but it didn't seem to help.

Please take a look (EXIF info below) & let me know if you can figure out what I'm doing wrong & what I can do to correct the problem(s). I'm really getting frustrated & discouraged.

Thanks so much!

Blessings,
Susan

Picture #1:

ISO 3200 (+5 exposure compensation)
f/2.8
1/500
manual

Picture #2:
ISO 3200 (+5 exposure compensation)
f/2.8
1/640
manual

[Kev]

I've been having pretty good results shooting in MANUAL at ISO 3200, around 1/320 - 1/400, f2.8, with a Sigma 70-200 f2.8. You're also going to find that light will fall off in different spots on different fields. Some fields it may be near mid field, others it may be in the red/end zones.

[Matt_G]

There is no EXIF in your images so will have to assume you posted the correct info.

First thing is when shooting Manual there is no exposure comp. That confuses me a little.

ISO 3200
f 2.8
and shutter around 1/400 should be brighter than this...if not its time to add light or just enjoy the game.

[Kev]

Correction: yes... shoot in manual.... I was reading something else and typed what I read (Doh!) when I sent that. MANUAL at ISO 3200, @200mm, 1/320, f2.8, with a Sigma 70-200 f2.8. Some sharpening applied and cropped, no other adjustments.

[Cerbera LM]

What Matt/Kevin said, shoot in A (Av). I get 1/250 or 1/320 at f2/8 and iso of 3200.

[Matt_G]

Matt did not say shot in Av... Manual always for night football!

everything else I agree with...

[90 5.0]

You say 3200 but i'm guessing you mean hi3 on the d80, it's not exactly like 3200 on a camera really capable of it's close.

If It were me i'd set the aperture at 2.8 and your iso at the max you can live with. hi3 on a d80's not going to be sharp no matter what. It's so noisy that any noise reduction will make the photo's horribly soft.

Then shot in aperture priority. D80's tend to shoot between .3 to .7 stops dark in low light in my experiences. Set ex comp to these and try them out.

You might not get the ss you want this way but you'll get the fastest shutter for the correct exposure you can.

I absolutely never shoot d80's past 1600 and cringe on that as it is. Hi3 is just bad, but if you can live with the noise and want to shoot that high go for it, it'll help keep the shutter speeds higher but it'll never look good on that body.

If I were you I'd rent a D300 also for better high iso.

[Susant707]

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. Robert, I do mean hi3 (and then I tried to add more light with exposure compensation). Is the operation of the D300 similar enough to the D80 that I could learn to use it fairly quickly if I rent one?

By the way, I just installed Lightroom 2 last week and am surprised that my EXIF information isn't in my images. I must have a setting turned off . . . somewhere. I'm still trying to learn how to use it. I'm not sure you CAN teach an "old dog" new tricks! ha ~

Boy, oh, boy . . . has this ever been a Monday when it comes to electronics (including my Blackberry Storm), software, etc. Whew!

[tc95]

+1 with Robert....you might get away with 1/200 or 1/150th of a second if you learn how to track the shot....ie move the camera with the shot so the shot comes out clean....the D80 is a great camera....you might want to rent a 200 f2.0 if you are going to rent...if you buy...get a 135mm f2.0 this is a very sharp and nice lens...if you stick with the 70-200mm I think you can make it work....and the focusing will be slightly faster than the 80-200mm...

You also may want to do a custom WB before you start shooting...and see if those pictures come out better....

Just play with the settings.....also the D300 and the higher ISO will make a difference...especially with active tracking 51 points AF will help your shots out better..

Good Luck...

[Matt_G]

I do mean hi3 (and then I tried to add more light with exposure compensation)

You cant "add" more light. And again are you shooting Apeture Priority or Manual? The latter does not have EC.

Stick with Manual... the main thing to remember is you might not be able to get what you want without adding light or using faster glass.

Also a camera that handles higher ISO "better" wont get you more light. 3200 ISO is 3200 ISO.... you are at least 2-stops under exposed..maybe 3. If the settings you gave are correct you would need 12800 - 25600 ISO to get correct exposure.

Hang in there... it will come together for you. But I do suggest asking the night football questions in the sports section. You will get answers from people who do this every week.

[Redneck]

I shoot with the D300 and the 70-200 VR (set to f/2.8) in shutter priority (1/320 or 1/400s), ISO 2000 to 2500 and that works quite well. However if you have very poor lighting in the stadium your camera probably reaches the limit.

[90 5.0]

Originally Posted by Matt_G

You cant "add" more light. And again are you shooting Apeture Priority or Manual? The latter does not have EC.

Stick with Manual... the main thing to remember is you might not be able to get what you want without adding light or using faster glass.

Also a camera that handles higher ISO "better" wont get you more light. 3200 ISO is 3200 ISO.... you are at least 2-stops under exposed..maybe 3. If the settings you gave are correct you would need 12800 - 25600 ISO to get correct exposure.

Hang in there... it will come together for you. But I do suggest asking the night football questions in the sports section. You will get answers from people who do this every week.

I don't agree with anything you said and here's why "I" wouldn't shoot manual and don't shoot manual for fast moving objects.

And why she is underexposed.

1) There is only one correct exposure to any given lighting situation and It can be different a foot away from where you were a secound ago. If you set your iso at the max value you want to shoot with and your ap at say 2.8 and your ss manually at 1/400 or 500, will the exposure be right?? it might be here and there but not every time, so you have to "chase the line" rolling the shutter wheel up and down. Why do that? Let the camera do it for you and use ap. You might like it.

2) you can use exposure comp, yes this will slow you're shutter a little to dial it in but once you figure out how your camera reacts to different situations you'll love it. Oh and the ss Wheele now moves the ex comp like it did the ss if you didn't know that.

And to the question about a D300 being close enough to an 80 to shoot with, yeah I think so. I picked one up for the first time and started shooting with it. Some more complex menu items are in different locations like hy speed sync, but basic functions are easy enough to find.

Or like suggested you could rent the 200 f/2 and get another 2/3 stops of light almost and that would bring the ss up some or allow you to shoot at 1600 with the 80 which is much better than hi3.

[Matt_G]

To each his own... I shoot "fast moving" objects as my main business and use Manual 95% of the time.

When I did use Av in the beginning it caused me MUCH more editing and thats only for daytime. As it relates to Firday night football I dont know of anyone using Av and I have never done that.

[rbaldwin]

I agree with Matt, Shooting in manual and bumping levels in PS is a lot better than Shutter speed dropping and being stuck with a blurry image. Yet another reason why applied science is better than science in theory.

[90 5.0]

Originally Posted by Matt_G

To each his own... I shoot "fast moving" objects as my main business and use Manual 95% of the time.

When I did use Av in the beginning it caused me MUCH more editing and thats only for daytime. As it relates to Firday night football I dont know of anyone using Av and I have never done that.

Plenty of pro's do

Originally Posted by rbaldwin

I agree with Matt, Shooting in manual and bumping levels in PS is a lot better than Shutter speed dropping and being stuck with a blurry image. Yet another reason why applied science is better than science in theory.

You can only correct so much with photoshop and the op doesn't seem to have the ability to bring her shots " back" already so I'm trying to give her advice that will give her the best results for her skill level and her equipment.